Purpose, Mindfulness, and Sending It On Your Own Path with Haley Hunter Smith

[00:00:00] So I'll never be who I was before that again. I just won't. And I think for the couple years

[00:00:06] after March 2020, I spent a lot of energy trying to be who I was before and make things the way

[00:00:15] they were before. And I just had to start accepting that I couldn't. You can't. You can't go back

[00:00:22] and you can't go back to a reality that doesn't exist anymore. And I had to grow into something

[00:00:28] new. And I think I started that day in Utah, in Beaver, Utah, Crusher and the Tushar. I started to

[00:00:38] accept that where I was now and yeah, stop resisting and just like send it on the path I was on.

[00:00:47] And it's been a like, it's weird to let go of an identity of who you were. Like I was the cross

[00:00:54] country bike racer and I was pursuing the Olympics. And from that day it was kind of more like, oh,

[00:00:59] maybe that's not who I am anymore. Then this is also cool and this is also valid. And maybe this is

[00:01:06] actually more in alignment with me as a person and not just societal expectations of the sport

[00:01:13] path that is important to the Olympics. That's Olympian mountain biker Hailey Hunter Smith

[00:01:19] sharing one of the many lessons she has learned over the course of her decorated career.

[00:01:23] As tempting as it can be to try to get back to some past version of yourself, take it from this

[00:01:29] Olympian. Your path lies ahead, not behind you. And it might just align better with the person you

[00:01:36] are and are becoming. Hailey is still competing, having pivoted to gravel after representing

[00:01:41] Canada at the Tokyo Games. And having grappled with life-threatening mental illness herself,

[00:01:46] she has a lot to share about what it takes to be a human being, striving for big dreams on

[00:01:50] the bike. You're listening to the Be a Good Wheel podcast, the show where we explore what it means

[00:01:55] to be a good wheel by digging into scientific research and personal stories about human potential

[00:02:00] and performance. I'm your host, Amber Pierce. Hailey Hunter Smith is a distinguished Canadian

[00:02:11] mountain bike racer and Olympian renowned for her resilience, athleticism, and inspiring journey.

[00:02:17] From a young age, Smith demonstrated a keen interest in sports and the outdoors,

[00:02:21] a passion nurtured by her active family. She began riding bikes at the age of six

[00:02:25] and quickly showed a natural talent for mountain biking. Despite her obvious skills,

[00:02:30] she faced significant personal hurdles. At 13 and struggling with severe anxiety,

[00:02:35] Hailey developed a life-threatening eating disorder, and she faced a challenging path

[00:02:39] to recovery. Tagging along with her father and brother, she found solace and a sense of

[00:02:44] freedom in cycling, which played a crucial role in her recovery. Mountain biking gave

[00:02:49] her an escape, as well as a means to practice the tools of recovery from mindfulness to learning

[00:02:54] how to nourish and fuel her body. Smith's early career was marked by steady progress and notable

[00:03:00] achievements. She competed in local and national competitions, gradually making her mark in the

[00:03:04] Canadian mountain biking scene. Her breakthrough came in 2014 when she won the U23 Canadian

[00:03:10] National Mountain Bike Championships, a victory that set the stage for her ascent

[00:03:13] to the international arena. Over the next few years, she continued to excel, earning multiple

[00:03:19] podium finishes in the UCI Mountain Bike World Cup and establishing herself as a formidable

[00:03:24] competitor. Her persistence and dedication culminated in a career-defining moment

[00:03:29] at the 2018 Commonwealth Games in Gold Coast, Australia, where she won a bronze medal

[00:03:34] in the Women's Cross Country event. Hailey was selected to represent Canada at the

[00:03:38] Tokyo Olympic Games in the Women's Cross Country Mountain Biking event. Like many other athletes,

[00:03:43] the shocking postponement of the Games due to the pandemic wreaked havoc on her preparation

[00:03:48] with devastating consequences for her mental health. A resurgence of anxiety and old patterns

[00:03:53] made her realize that her eating disorder recovery wasn't just a thing of the past.

[00:03:57] She reached out for help, with the goal of competing in Tokyo in a much healthier place,

[00:04:02] which she did. After Tokyo, Hailey shifted her focus to gravel racing

[00:04:06] and in 2022 won the inaugural Lifetime Grand Prix, a series of wildly varying

[00:04:11] off-road events including both gravel and mountain biking. She took the overall victory

[00:04:16] ahead of an historic field of talent in the women's race and, perhaps more importantly,

[00:04:21] rekindled her love for bikes. It was the second race of the series, a headliner event

[00:04:26] called Crusher in the Tushar that proved pivotal for her mindset and cemented her

[00:04:30] love for the discipline and community of gravel racing. She finished third overall

[00:04:36] in the 2023 Lifetime Grand Prix and as of this recording,

[00:04:39] sits fourth in the 2024 standings leading into unbound gravel.

[00:04:44] Off the bike, Smith is known for her academic pursuits and commitment to personal growth.

[00:04:48] She's pursuing a Masters of Sport Psychology in positive youth development,

[00:04:52] a field that complements her advocacy work and informs her approach to performance

[00:04:56] as well as her impact as a role model. Her holistic approach to life and athletics

[00:05:01] emphasizes balance, health and forward-looking growth.

[00:05:05] Hayley has been open about her struggles using her platform to support others and to

[00:05:09] normalize conversations about mental health. Her candid leadership has helped to break down

[00:05:14] stigmas and has made her a role model both within and beyond the sporting community.

[00:05:18] I was able to catch Hayley before meeting with her academic advisor and while we didn't

[00:05:22] have as much time to record as we typically do, I think you'll find this conversation

[00:05:26] is a veritable goldmine of knowledge and guidance from someone who has truly tested

[00:05:31] these ideas in the lowest moments of struggle as well as the highest levels of sport.

[00:05:36] I hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I did.

[00:05:40] It is my absolute pleasure to welcome to the show today Olympic mountain biker,

[00:05:44] Hayley Hunter Smith. Hayley, thank you so much for being with us today.

[00:05:47] Thanks for asking me to be on. I'm looking forward to it.

[00:05:50] Me too. We are just going to dive right in today. One of the things that I've read in my research

[00:05:58] about your incredible story is a phrase that has come up a few times. I just want to ask you,

[00:06:04] write off the cuff. How did mountain biking save your life?

[00:06:09] Before I found mountain biking, I started when I was in mid-adolescence and before that,

[00:06:15] I was going through eating disorder recovery. I had ridden a bike a few times with my family,

[00:06:21] obviously like I knew how to ride a two-wheeler and whatnot, but in the process of getting over

[00:06:27] or learning to manage, I should say my eating disorder, that's when I started to race a little

[00:06:31] bit more and ride more recreationally and eventually competitively, but mostly just

[00:06:39] going out for rides. It taught me how to fuel, it taught me how to eat, it taught me how to be

[00:06:47] present because you're very quickly on the ground mountain biking if you're not fully present.

[00:06:52] It gave me time in nature and those two things, the presence and the time outdoors in the woods,

[00:06:58] it was an hour a day where nothing else existed and I wasn't wrapped up in my own

[00:07:08] in my disorder or in my brain. It gave me that calm and then over time, the pursuit

[00:07:17] and the development of goals that I was chasing, I would say that's really what saved

[00:07:23] my life, what gave me purpose. Yeah, I guess it gave me a drive and it just gave a lot more

[00:07:29] fullness and meaning to my life and without it, I probably would still be, well who knows what

[00:07:35] would happen, but I don't think it would have been good. So let's talk about that a little bit.

[00:07:42] It gave you a sense of purpose. Before you really felt that through mountain biking,

[00:07:46] what do you think was the difference for you? What did it feel like before

[00:07:50] kind of finding that sense of purpose? I know that's a really inadequate way of phrasing that,

[00:07:56] but prior to feeling that sense of purpose and after feeling that sense of purpose,

[00:07:59] what was the difference for you? So it's hard to describe because I was quite young.

[00:08:04] Like I was 13 when I was diagnosed with my illness and I mean, most 13-year-olds don't

[00:08:10] really have a defined sense of purpose and you don't need one. It's just growing up

[00:08:14] and living and having fun. But for me, from that point and earlier in my life, I was really struggling

[00:08:22] with like existential things. That sounds so dramatic, but from the time that I learned

[00:08:27] about the concept of mortality when I was a kid, I was paralyzed by it, fixated on it,

[00:08:34] like unable to deal with the fact that like there is an end to things basically. And that

[00:08:41] gave me, that really is what triggered my anxiety issues that then precipitated the eating disorder.

[00:08:48] And it was all consuming and I won't go too deep into that rabbit hole because it's pretty dark

[00:08:54] and it might be triggering for a lot of people. But basically mountain biking gave me

[00:09:00] something to focus on that wasn't the concept of like death and the world ending and all of that.

[00:09:08] And it just gave me, it just gave my life a spark again or for the first time probably.

[00:09:16] Yeah, I don't know if that answers your question but...

[00:09:18] It totally does and for what it's worth, I feel like existential dread, existential questions,

[00:09:25] like not dramatic in the least. I feel like this is the kind of thing that we all grapple

[00:09:29] with at some point and you just happen to start grappling with it at a very, very young

[00:09:35] and tender age. That must have been so hard.

[00:09:39] Yeah, I feel like it's probably more hard for my parents. I remember

[00:09:43] my dad has always had trouble sleeping and this would obviously, like everything that you worry

[00:09:48] about, this would come out when I would try to go to bed. And I can't count the number of times

[00:09:52] that I would go downstairs sobbing as like a 10-year-old and my dad would be laying on the

[00:09:58] couch trying to fall asleep and I'd be like, Dad, what happens when you die? And he would

[00:10:02] have to deal with this. If for like years he would have to deal with this and console me through it.

[00:10:08] So I'm pretty sure he's also very glad that I found a bike riding.

[00:10:13] Well, as a parent, my husband and I have a two-year-old and I'm just waiting for these

[00:10:18] hard questions because I'm thinking, you know, I'm asking myself these questions still,

[00:10:22] you know, in my 40s and I'm like, my kid's going to come to me and ask me these things

[00:10:27] and I'm going to need to have some answers, you know? And I may not have it all figured

[00:10:31] out, but I can empathize with both of you because I feel like I'm a little bit,

[00:10:36] I've definitely been on your side of it and I feel like I'm staring down the prospect of

[00:10:41] your dad's side of it as well. Yeah, it's just, it's the shared thing of being human. There's

[00:10:46] a TV show that I really liked called The Good Place and there was a quote, I mean this,

[00:10:52] it was perfect for what I, for where my brain goes. It was a great show, but

[00:10:57] there was a quote in it near the end where the character, the character that Kristen Bell plays,

[00:11:02] she says something to the effect of like maybe growing up is just like being a little bit sad

[00:11:08] all the time and like you just, you do, you have to learn how to just hold these opposing,

[00:11:14] you know, joy for life and joy for what you're pursuing, but then just, you know, it's

[00:11:18] being human is kind of sad. Like it's a sad thing and I just couldn't deal with that at

[00:11:23] the age that I was at, but I think my dad did a pretty good job of helping me eventually reconcile

[00:11:28] myself to it. Yeah, that's, I mean kudos to your dad. And my mom too, my dad was just the one that

[00:11:35] was awake at night. He was the one on the couch. Yeah, that I mean, I feel like I can really

[00:11:46] relate to a lot of your story in different ways, right? Obviously we all have different

[00:11:50] experiences, but the anxiety component is a big one. And what you just said really resonated with me,

[00:11:56] I was a swimmer growing up and I had anxiety from a young age as well. And I remember in my 40s going

[00:12:02] home and talking to my childhood coach and he kind of sat me down and he said, I'm going to give you

[00:12:07] 30 years of therapy in three minutes. Like bring it on. And he said, look, when you were 10,

[00:12:15] you didn't feel like you were enough. When you were 20, you didn't feel like you were

[00:12:17] enough. When you were 30, you didn't feel like you were enough. You've been struggling with anxiety

[00:12:21] and these big questions since you were a kid. And he's like, I see you now in your 40s,

[00:12:25] you're still struggling with him. Maybe you're just never going to feel like you're enough.

[00:12:29] And maybe that's okay. And maybe you're going to feel anxious a lot of your life. And maybe

[00:12:34] that's okay. And maybe part of, and what he pointed out was a lot of what makes it a

[00:12:41] struggle is fighting against it. And he's like, if you kind of just take that step back

[00:12:46] and just say, you know what? Maybe this is a part of who I am and that's okay. It takes

[00:12:54] you from 100 down to 80. It takes a huge part of the edge off right away. And I thought,

[00:12:59] on one hand, one could look at that statement and think that was a really cruel and harsh thing

[00:13:03] to say. On the other hand, my experience of it was just immense relief. Kind of similar

[00:13:09] to when you heard Kristen Bell make that quote like, oh, maybe this is okay. Maybe this is

[00:13:14] just part of being human after all. Yeah, you can't change or move through something or learn to

[00:13:19] deal with it if you haven't accepted it. Yeah, like you I mean the mindfulness acceptance

[00:13:24] commitment approach is something we use in sports psychology, but also just behavioral

[00:13:30] psychology as well. It's become aware of what you're experiencing, accept it and then commit

[00:13:34] to how you're going to act through it. And sometimes it's changing it sometimes it's just

[00:13:38] being like, well that's how it is. So let's figure it out now.

[00:13:44] Yeah, so you are you're studying developmental psychology right now. Do I have that right as

[00:13:48] developmental psychology the correct way of putting it? That is a different,

[00:13:52] slightly different field, but I'm so I'm studying sports psychology, positive youth

[00:13:56] development. So okay, we do focus on performance as well. But the large focus

[00:14:02] of my studies is on basically developing good humans through sport and promoting positive

[00:14:09] outcomes through sport experiences and understanding those outcomes and the processes that drive it.

[00:14:15] Yeah, I mean even what we're talking about right now I feel you know even from my personal

[00:14:21] experience and then understanding what I do of psychology and the science out there,

[00:14:26] the wherewithal that we have at 30 versus 10 is very different. You know, the tools we have

[00:14:33] at our disposal even the structure of our brains is so different in terms of how we can grapple

[00:14:39] with these questions. And I'm just curious in your studies have you seen as you're studying this

[00:14:45] stuff do you see your own experience reflected in what you're studying? For sure. I mean

[00:14:52] every experience is different, every person's experience is different but there are a lot of

[00:14:56] commonalities and there are things that we all share at all phases of our lives. Like there

[00:15:02] are commonalities to just being human and I see a lot of I mean unfortunately I see a lot of

[00:15:09] the negative outcomes that I experienced throughout my sport journey not necessarily

[00:15:13] because of sport but in conjunction with sport like you know like anxiety and eating disorders

[00:15:19] and all of these things but I also see a lot of the positive things like learning to cope and

[00:15:25] adaptive mechanisms and you know like I can't even list them all. Like so many positive outcomes

[00:15:31] that I have garnered because of sport you see evidence to support that these are things

[00:15:37] that do happen when we engage in sport from a young age and as adults. So that's really

[00:15:42] cool because I've always believed that sports really powerful and obviously other people agree

[00:15:47] otherwise there would not be funding for sport and people wouldn't do it but the literature shows

[00:15:51] this as well. Yeah there's a ton of evidence out there for it and I mean anecdotal and empirical

[00:15:58] for sure and it's interesting that you mentioned that because I think sport has the potential

[00:16:04] to exacerbate a lot of these things and it has the potential to as it did in your case be

[00:16:10] really healing and like you said it's it's not necessarily sport but sometimes the experience

[00:16:15] of sport in conjunction with these things what would you say kind of made the difference for you

[00:16:19] between sport exacerbating these things and ending up being the thing that saved your life?

[00:16:26] It's tough because I think both things are true at all in all elements. My initial thought would

[00:16:33] be that it was the pursuit of the highest level of performance so the pursuit of

[00:16:38] the Olympics because that is a pressure cooker environment that really drew these things

[00:16:42] to the surface for me but that pursuit is also like that is what saved me like I said it was my

[00:16:49] purpose. So I think it's all dependent on where you're at in your life the support system that

[00:16:58] you have in terms of your social relationships and your coaching relationships and those things

[00:17:03] and yeah just the approach that you're able to bring to the sport environment and I would

[00:17:09] say that a lot of that is developed through sport mental coaching so you know whether it's like having

[00:17:16] a sport psychologist or a therapist or whatnot. So yeah there have been periods of my life where

[00:17:23] my coping skills have been more than sufficient to make sure that the balance tipped in favor of

[00:17:30] positive outcomes and there have been periods of my life where the external stressors have been

[00:17:35] too great for the coping mechanisms that I had established and I tipped over to towards the

[00:17:42] towards the negative outcome balance. Yeah just it's very dependent I suppose on context.

[00:17:50] That's so true yeah and even what you're describing is that on the one hand sport was

[00:17:57] bringing these things to the surface for you and yet it was in an environment of support where

[00:18:05] you could learn to handle the things where you know if something was brought to the surface that

[00:18:10] exceeded your coping skills at that moment you had a support system to help you learn the

[00:18:14] coping skills that you needed to address that and sport is important and it's very very

[00:18:22] meaningful and so what I'm about to say I don't want to take away from that at all but it's

[00:18:25] also in some ways an environment where we can kind of experiment and play with coping skills. We

[00:18:33] can play with these stressors right in a way that isn't as risky say as in our like core

[00:18:43] relationships in life and so it gives us almost like a playground where we can experiment and learn

[00:18:49] in like a low-risk environment. That's exactly true that's something I you've articulated

[00:18:54] that really a lot better than I have been able to but that's I say that quite frequently because

[00:19:00] when I was initially going through recovery I don't like the word recovery because it's ongoing

[00:19:06] and you don't just like it's not like you're going in it's more like going into remission

[00:19:11] almost with your with an eating disorder but anyways in that period of time I was seeing

[00:19:16] a psychologist, a psychiatrist, a family psychologist, a dietitian. I had to go see my doctor once

[00:19:23] a month like there were so many health professionals and it was overwhelming I could not tackle my

[00:19:28] problems in this environment like it was just too much for a 14 year old to handle but then

[00:19:34] I started to see a sports psychologist and it was she gave me she was teaching me these

[00:19:41] well first of all she was basically providing me therapy but she was also teaching me all these

[00:19:46] skills that are very similar to what you would learn in cognitive behavioral therapy

[00:19:51] but it was in a in a it was about bike racing like it's not about it wasn't about trying not to

[00:19:58] focus on dying it was about like learning how to get over a jump on my bike and that's a little

[00:20:04] scary but it's only like kind of scary and it's made up so it's just so much lower pressure

[00:20:11] anyways it was it was just the perfect context for me to learn how to

[00:20:15] live as a functional human yeah those lessons really transfer over

[00:20:19] yeah I mean two things you said that really stood out to me one is that

[00:20:25] um you go from a literal life and death situation to a fun situation like the difference in context

[00:20:36] for your brain and your ability to be in a calm state of mind a receptive state of mind

[00:20:41] to actually learn and integrate those skills is so different and then the second you thing

[00:20:47] you said that really stood out to me is you're choosing you're choosing to try to learn how to

[00:20:53] do this jump right whereas we don't get to choose whether or not we grapple with death I mean

[00:21:00] that's just part of being human but in this other context in sport you get to choose to

[00:21:05] challenge yourself and so there's a level of agency in that that doesn't exist when you're

[00:21:11] just dealing with existential dread exactly and I think even that like that is also something that

[00:21:20] is a learned response like learning to see agency in situations is something you can do

[00:21:27] I think in sport you do eventually learn that you know pressure is made up

[00:21:32] your reality really is fully subjective the only thing that exists for you is what's in your

[00:21:39] mind right now like that is what shapes your reality and how you're experiencing the world

[00:21:44] and yeah I guess I don't want to keep going down this root necessarily but existential issues or

[00:21:55] yeah that that that sense of tension and dread that's in your brain only exists if

[00:22:02] you let it live there really like on some level if you learn to not think about it that much

[00:22:08] then it's not there like it's just not real most of the time and I think you can you can learn that

[00:22:15] through sport too I'm not sure if I'm making sense there but yeah yes absolutely I mean I think

[00:22:22] an analogy that comes to mind sport oh no um it's like we experience ourselves right but also

[00:22:32] we experience different states of self and those can be context dependent and those really depend a

[00:22:38] lot on our perception of our circumstances so a basic example that comes to mind is if I show up

[00:22:44] to a local race and there's you know 15 20 people in the field it's a bike race right it's a bike

[00:22:49] race my perception of the pressure or the threat or the risk of that situation is pretty low

[00:22:56] because it's a it's a local race but I can also go to a bike race which is also a bike race

[00:23:02] and it's maybe the world championships or the Olympics right I didn't go to the Olympics but

[00:23:09] very different perception of the circumstance even though at its core it's just a bike race

[00:23:17] and so I can totally like at the end of my career I remember thinking I had this kind of

[00:23:23] unspoken goal in my own mind I didn't really share it externally that I wanted to treat every race

[00:23:27] the same I wanted to achieve some level of psychological integrity where I could go to a

[00:23:32] local race and be in the same mindset that I would be in if I were at the world championships

[00:23:37] and likewise be at the world championships and be in the same mindset as I would be for a

[00:23:41] local bike race and that depends on how I'm perceiving the situation and that man that

[00:23:49] is not an easy skill to master I'll say that like it kind of makes sense but it's also like so much

[00:23:55] easier said than done it is for sure and I think that's one of the that's one of the things that

[00:24:02] you try to learn as an athlete is how to I mean it's related to a lot of things like it's related

[00:24:07] to like the idea of choking and the idea of flow even like if you can get to a if you

[00:24:13] can get to a start line or the beginning of whatever sporting endeavor you're doing

[00:24:19] and just be in that place where it's it's just what it is it's what it's what's happening right now

[00:24:25] it's not about the broadcasters it's not about the medals on the line it's just the task then

[00:24:31] you won't choke because the pressure isn't there the pressure is not present it's just

[00:24:37] the game and I've always talked about my coach and I have always talked about cycling

[00:24:41] as a game as well like which has helped with this mindset actually but yeah it is it is so much about

[00:24:48] what you give the mental space for I think what do you consciously choose to focus on

[00:24:56] because what you consciously choose to focus on you can exclude them by virtue of just placing

[00:25:01] your attention elsewhere so it's not necessarily about like not perceiving the pressure but

[00:25:06] it's about choosing to focus on something else and the pressure just doesn't have room

[00:25:10] ooh I like that a lot what was something that really helped you get to this this point or

[00:25:17] and I understand this is process so it's not like you flip the switch and then you're like oh I

[00:25:21] got this forever but what is something that's been really helpful for you in in managing

[00:25:26] pressure like this it really has just been learning to be task oriented so we started

[00:25:32] this process when I was quite new to bike racing yeah probably as a junior or under 23 and I would

[00:25:39] get so anxious and so nervous and so hard on myself um and we discovered that it was because I was

[00:25:45] focusing on my focus was external it was on the result and it was on other people so I had

[00:25:51] to learn to bring my focus internal and to uh what my coach always called it was just the task

[00:25:57] at hand so before every race I would journal and I still do this and I would write out my process

[00:26:04] goals that were kind of like mantras that would help me stay on task it's almost emotional discipline

[00:26:10] in a way like you use these process goals in order to prevent yourself from becoming emotional

[00:26:17] about the pressure or what other people are doing so it'd be simple things like

[00:26:21] on each climb of the course it would be your cadence has to be 90 rpm and like that is as

[00:26:26] soon as I hit the climb it's like go as hard as I can at 90 rpm like that is the task that's it

[00:26:32] and it's learning it's training focus I suppose and you do lots of things off the bike to help this

[00:26:37] as well specifically a mindfulness practice or a meditation practice like you are you train

[00:26:42] the focus you train the ability to do this and it's it's not an emotional thing it's not about

[00:26:47] like a who's tougher thing it's just like you know doing your endurance base volume like it's

[00:26:53] just it's a skill that you practice on the bygand off and eventually it becomes natural all of the

[00:27:01] the task oriented kind of focus that you're describing I find really interesting because

[00:27:06] it brings back that concept of agency right because everything that you're describing that

[00:27:10] internal focus brings the control back to you versus the external things that may or

[00:27:15] may not be in your control you never are in control of the outcome ever even if you

[00:27:21] think you are so I think some of what setting process goals and committing to these tasks is

[00:27:28] about is just recognizing that reality that you can only control what's in your control

[00:27:32] and that is your best way forward in any circumstances to just focus your energy on the

[00:27:37] the areas that you can have a realistic impact on and like you said that is an aspect of

[00:27:44] carving out agency for yourself matching on to that sense of autonomy which is really really

[00:27:49] empowering and it's something that humans need in our basic experience of life the three things

[00:27:55] that satisfy our most core needs are to have a sense of autonomy to feel a sense of competence

[00:28:00] and to be related to to other people to feel that sense of relatedness and yeah the autonomy

[00:28:08] aspect is just hugely important in so many ways you also mentioned flow which and mindfulness

[00:28:16] and it sounds from what I've read about you that that mindfulness in particular and flow being

[00:28:23] you know some component of that has been really really important for you in in this journey in

[00:28:29] you know figuring out your diagnosis and then managing that as you said not necessarily

[00:28:36] getting over it but how has mindfulness played a part for you what is it what has that

[00:28:42] felt like or how what has that changed for you yeah so so mindfulness is for those who are I mean

[00:28:47] it's such a buzzword now but for those who aren't aware it's basically just the the process or the

[00:28:52] practice of being non-judgmentally present and aware so being aware of your internal dialogue

[00:29:00] your yeah what's going on internally sensation wise uh thought wise and that just letting it

[00:29:08] happen just letting it letting it exist acknowledging that it's there but not uh judging yourself or the

[00:29:13] actual uh the experience in any way and that's why it's been so helpful and important because

[00:29:22] you know harkening back to what we said earlier about letting go of the need to change things

[00:29:27] letting go of the resistance or the um that's probably the better word like the resistance you

[00:29:33] feel to the experience of anxiety or difficult emotions if you can um learn to let go of that

[00:29:41] resistance and just be with it then you're free to act you're not wasting all of the emotional

[00:29:47] and cognitive energy on wishing it were otherwise and that that's the space where you can actually

[00:29:54] make meaningful progress and you know yeah make meaningful progress so I started meditating

[00:30:02] formally with the headspace app actually I think was the first my first introduction to it

[00:30:07] a very long time ago like in 2013 which is a long time for me but you know as as a 20-year-old that's

[00:30:14] kind of when I got into it um I'd grown up dancing and doing yoga so that that was it wasn't a

[00:30:20] foreign concept to me um this idea of trying to learn to be mindful um but it became a daily

[00:30:26] practice and it was um yeah just hugely important like it's the foundation of all

[00:30:31] other mental skills you can't really effectively enact your other mental skills if you're not

[00:30:36] capable of being mindful because that's the first step in recognizing what you need to do in order

[00:30:42] to move forward is being aware of what's happening within you yeah being aware of what's

[00:30:47] happening within you that's such a good way to describe it because sometimes we get on autopilot

[00:30:52] and we just kind of think that my thought my feeling there is no difference between this

[00:30:58] thought and feeling in me I am just I am this thought I am this feeling and these things are

[00:31:03] driving me or affecting me one way or the other but having that ability to step back and observe

[00:31:09] and say oh there's that feeling again there's that voice again and having that just that

[00:31:16] even the smallest bit of separation again it kind of goes back to that to that agency piece

[00:31:21] which is so important and there was something you said in there that I just I wanted to

[00:31:26] come back to which was this idea of sport as being this fun arena where we can experiment with these

[00:31:33] things um flow we talk about flow a lot and there is an actual you know as you know a formal

[00:31:41] definition I'm saying this for the benefit of our listeners who may not be aware but it was

[00:31:45] a really famous book proposed this based on research by Mihai Chik sent me hi and

[00:31:52] he looked at a bunch of people across a bunch of different cultures and life paths and found that

[00:31:59] there was this common experience of flow and he described it as you know there were there were

[00:32:03] different elements of flow but one of those elements of flow was immediate feedback and

[00:32:09] what you were just describing that that non-judgment and the extra emotional and cognitive

[00:32:15] energy that you end up putting into something when you know you're adding this huge layer of

[00:32:22] energy demand on what you're doing and in day to day life we may not notice that but if you're

[00:32:28] in the middle of a bike race and you're fully on the rivet and you are doing everything you can

[00:32:33] to channel every ounce of energy into your effort on the bike you are going to notice

[00:32:39] the tiniest little increments of difference of where you may or may not be wasting energy

[00:32:43] including mental and emotional energy so it's another way that sport ends up providing this really

[00:32:51] effective wonderful atmosphere for learning because that's another element of that immediate

[00:32:56] feedback of like oh where are you wasting energy it may not just be the tension in your shoulders

[00:33:01] right yeah and it's not just wasting energy it's wasting time like that that um

[00:33:08] the like the infinitesimal amount of time that is added when you judge yourself before taking an

[00:33:15] action or judge yourself at the detriment to taking any action which can be a huge amount of time loss

[00:33:20] is really really important when you're in a peak performance or performance on demand scenario and

[00:33:27] obviously it's really important in mountain biking when you're navigating technical terrain

[00:33:31] it's probably even more so in you know sprint sports where the total time is only 10 seconds

[00:33:38] but yeah that the time that you lose in judgment of self is really really I mean you don't have

[00:33:44] you can't afford to do that in sport so you learn not to and I think athletes are as a general

[00:33:50] rule are really good at decision making they're very good at learning how to take action in

[00:33:58] stressful situations whether it's in sport or out of sport and I think a lot of it has to do with

[00:34:02] their experiences with flow and mindfulness and learning to prioritize action without that step

[00:34:09] of judgment or uh like overthinking in a way yeah I love that um I this is I'm having so much

[00:34:19] fun geeking out on this by the way this is I love this stuff and I just I love how you

[00:34:24] think about it and it's this is really really fun one of the things that you mentioned about the

[00:34:30] non-judgment part really resonates because it's interesting how humans perceive pain compared to

[00:34:36] you know other animals insects reptiles for example for all animals and creatures like there

[00:34:42] is a sensation of pain the physical sensation of pain but for humans it's it's very physically in

[00:34:48] the structure of the brain but also experientially connected with emotion right so it's not just

[00:34:54] that we feel the pain in our legs the burn as we're going up a climb as hard as we can

[00:34:59] there's also emotion connected with that too which is okay there's the sensation of pain and now

[00:35:04] there's meaning and judgment and you know what does this mean does this mean I'm

[00:35:11] gonna get dropped does this mean I'm not as good of an athlete as I thought I was and that

[00:35:16] judgment starts to create this extra layer like you said that I didn't even think about it

[00:35:22] in terms of decision-making but you're totally right because that just it adds that split second

[00:35:26] where especially as a mountain biker you're making decisions about line choice at I mean

[00:35:34] I'm not a mountain biker so it's terrifying to me at ridiculous speeds on very technical

[00:35:41] terrain and like you said at the very beginning of our conversation if you're not mindful you're

[00:35:45] on the ground really quickly that's so what a yeah just what a powerful way of of experiencing that

[00:35:52] and I've never thought about the pain aspect of it necessarily I know that oh I know so that's

[00:35:58] really cool that you brought that up I I know that a lot of literature supports

[00:36:04] like meditation as a way to reduce the perception of pain like frequent meditation or following

[00:36:12] a yeah following a daily meditation practice for a certain amount of time reduces the the experience

[00:36:17] or the perception of chronic pain but I've never thought about it as it relates to emotion necessarily

[00:36:22] but you're so right it's never just really physical pain there's like what does this mean

[00:36:31] about me and fear that comes to the forefront when you experience that so that's definitely

[00:36:36] something we work through in in sport as well that I just probably haven't thought of before

[00:36:43] we want to make this podcast financially sustainable and need your help to keep a good thing going

[00:36:48] sign up for a be a good wheel membership on kofi and get access to extended guest interviews bonus

[00:36:53] episodes and be a good wheel gear monthly memberships start as low as three dollars per month

[00:37:00] go to kofi.com slash be a good wheel to join other members who are supporting the show

[00:37:05] that's ko-fi.com slash be a good wheel and now back to our conversation with Hayley Hunter Smith

[00:37:13] an Olympic mountain biker turned gravel pro talking about her ride at a marquee gravel event

[00:37:17] called crusher in the tush her her performance at the race in 2022 proved pivotal for her after years

[00:37:24] of doubt following the postponement of the Tokyo Olympics for those that aren't familiar with it

[00:37:31] the crusher in the tush her is a roughly a five hour gravel race at altitude so it's all between

[00:37:38] 2000 and 3000 meters above sea level not sure what that is in feet but pretty high and there's two

[00:37:45] major mountain climbs in it and I ended up riding away from the field with about two to two and a

[00:37:53] half hours left in the race so about halfway through I went solo and I was able to hold it to the

[00:37:57] finish line and for the previous probably two years I definitely thought that I would never

[00:38:05] have a performance like that again have a performance where I believed in myself and just

[00:38:11] went unencumbered by you know unencumbered by memories of how I used to be or comparisons

[00:38:19] of how I used to be etc and so it was really powerful for me because it made me feel

[00:38:27] capable again I suppose I felt like I was capable of accessing everything that all of my

[00:38:34] capacities on the day and I had felt blocked for a really long time and it was a pivotal point

[00:38:40] it was just kind of it was when I started believing in my self believing in my ability

[00:38:46] to execute my craft well again and it had been a while since I'd done that.

[00:38:51] Yeah so it felt like you were coming back into what you knew you'd been able to do

[00:38:57] and it it sounds like you had hit a real low before Tokyo which I think that was such a

[00:39:04] challenge for so many athletes that were poised to go to the Tokyo Olympics for those listening

[00:39:10] this was in 2020 and obviously the Olympics require very specialized preparation and

[00:39:19] it's at such a level that you really you can't really allow for anything to go wrong and yet

[00:39:26] global pandemic and then the the Olympics in an unprecedented move are postponed so all of

[00:39:33] these athletes who had built their entire seasons and timing around a particular date

[00:39:38] for the Olympics now faced with completely upending their plan and it seems like that was a real

[00:39:47] challenging point for a lot of people but for you in particular when I was reading about your story

[00:39:52] and I'm coming back to this because I want to kind of connect this back to that point

[00:39:56] at Crusher of the Tushar where where you felt like you were kind of coming back into

[00:40:02] yourself in a way. I don't know that it's necessarily coming back into myself because

[00:40:06] I'll never be like so many people I'll never be who I was before the pandemic.

[00:40:12] I know some people managed to not feel that emotionally impacted by it but that was like

[00:40:19] I can't even wrap my head around it still like that was that was the trigger for another

[00:40:23] existential crisis as I'm sure I am not alone in experiencing that so I'll never be

[00:40:29] who I was before that again I just won't and I think for the couple years after March 2020

[00:40:36] I spent a lot of energy trying to be who I was before and make things the way they were before

[00:40:44] and I just had to start accepting that it I couldn't you can't you can't go back and

[00:40:51] you can't go back to a reality that doesn't exist anymore and I had to grow into something

[00:40:56] new and I think I started that that day in Utah in Beaver Utah, pressure in the Tushar

[00:41:04] I started to accept that where I was now and yeah stop resisting and just and just like

[00:41:14] send it on the path I was on and it's been a like it's weird to let go of an identity

[00:41:20] of who you were like I was the cross-country bike racer and I was pursuing the Olympics and from that

[00:41:26] day it was kind of more like oh maybe that's not who I am anymore then this is also cool and this

[00:41:32] is also valid and maybe this is actually more in alignment with me as a person and not just

[00:41:39] societal expectations of the sport path that is important you know the Olympics big yeah it was

[00:41:46] anyways it's taken a long time to like process those things but the middle of 2022 was definitely when

[00:41:52] I started to feel a bit more free and able to move forward. So given that that race was sort of a

[00:41:59] turning point for you, I'm wondering and what I'm curious about is that acceptance that oh maybe

[00:42:07] I can accept where I am now and that I am this new version of myself was that acceptance

[00:42:12] happening before the race during the race after the race do you remember how that was

[00:42:17] how you were experiencing that? I don't know that I was necessarily I wasn't consciously

[00:42:23] or experiencing acceptance I think but the context of that race is very unique because like I said

[00:42:28] it is very high like at a high elevation and I'm a sea level person born race here

[00:42:35] there's just a lot less pressure on me or I perceive there to be less pressure because

[00:42:40] I like everybody else that there's a lot of people in that field that live at altitude and I just

[00:42:45] felt like well this is just going to be really hard and I have no idea what's going to happen so

[00:42:50] we'll just go out and see and I guess that in a way is acceptance of that day not necessarily

[00:42:57] acceptance of the path or the racing style I was doing but that creates a lot of freedom because

[00:43:02] it does eliminate the judgment and the worry and the what if cascade that happens

[00:43:10] yeah so maybe not so much acceptance of my overall path but definitely acceptance of

[00:43:16] the race for what it was and what it might be and that made me feel free

[00:43:22] and then maybe you tell me but was that something that kind of opened the door for you to feel

[00:43:28] a greater sense of freedom in the bigger picture about accepting where you were

[00:43:32] maybe I don't think until I don't think until after the fact really like after the race when

[00:43:39] I realized that I can get a sense of joy and fulfillment out of a and not out of a win

[00:43:46] like I don't think I don't think it was because I won but it was because I did everything I could

[00:43:53] and I took a bet on myself and that's what is fulfilling for me and I just hadn't experienced

[00:43:58] that since before the Olympics and so yeah that feeling opened the door for sure.

[00:44:05] That's beautiful that's really beautiful I'm really curious because you've talked a lot

[00:44:10] about your support system and I think this is such an important topic for athletes in general

[00:44:15] because we none of us can do it alone right like you have to have a support system and

[00:44:22] your story is so interesting in that it spans you know from a very very young age all the

[00:44:27] way through to where you are now in this long kind of career how has your support system evolved

[00:44:33] over the years what have you learned about the kind of support that you need and putting together

[00:44:37] the support system that that best helps you? Oh that's a loaded question I've locked into an

[00:44:45] incredible support system the family that I was born into is unbelievably close and supportive

[00:44:53] like I'm learning as I get older that my family is very not the norm in how tight we all are as a

[00:45:01] both immediate and extended family and how yeah just how much we can count on each other

[00:45:08] I locked into meeting my partner in bike racing and having him be the most compassionate person

[00:45:12] I've ever met so he's really important and my coach as well the coach that I worked with for

[00:45:19] all the way up till Tokyo and we're still very close friends but yeah he that friendship that's

[00:45:26] come out of that coaching relationship when I was pursuing the Olympics like that is

[00:45:31] massive and I locked into all these all these wonderful people and but I say it's a loaded

[00:45:37] question also because there's a lot of load on them to support these endeavors and

[00:45:46] its support system is relationships it's not resources necessarily it can include people who are

[00:45:55] you know professionals whose job is to be a resource but for the most part these are meaningful

[00:46:01] relationships that you also have to try to take care of and I'm not all that good at that and

[00:46:05] that's very challenging it's a challenging thing to do when you're I mean every human knows this

[00:46:11] when you're in a real bad spot it's hard to take care of yourself let alone the people that are around

[00:46:18] you yeah I don't know what else to say about that it's just a it's a tough I'm very lucky with who

[00:46:26] I have had the fortune to be surrounded by and I wouldn't be here without them I don't know what

[00:46:32] else to say about it yeah yeah it's one of the things I wanted to touch on today and this is

[00:46:37] a great segue for this is how you know we've talked a lot about so far in our conversation

[00:46:44] mindset and that kind of internal personal work that we have to do right because that's that's

[00:46:50] part of the the journey in the path but that idea of working on the self and that kind of

[00:46:57] self-focused worth can be thought of as a very western thought and in more kind of like eastern

[00:47:03] concepts it would be looked at more in terms of how does that work benefit the collective or the

[00:47:09] community and what you're describing right now is are those really important relationships that we

[00:47:15] have in life and I'm curious as you've done this work through the years have you seen the skills

[00:47:21] that you're cultivating in the work that you're doing that's inward focused have you seen that

[00:47:25] affect your relationships or even with individuals or even your relationship with the communities

[00:47:31] that you're part of definitely and that's been a large part of my transition to this more mass start

[00:47:39] marathon style of mountain bike racing and gravel racing is it is very community focused and it's

[00:47:45] about something that's bigger than just my selfish little sphere and it's one of the reasons I'm

[00:47:53] drawn to it because I was just getting I just got sick of myself in a way like I got sick of it

[00:48:00] being such a there was a time in my life where you know it was appropriate for me to be fully,

[00:48:06] fully, fully self-focused and laser tuned in on this Olympic dream but it's it's no longer

[00:48:13] fulfilling I kind of I chased that like the autonomy and the competence competence arms of

[00:48:20] fulfillment and I need that relatedness piece a little bit more so in a way it's still selfish

[00:48:25] but I need to feel connected to others through this otherwise it just feels very hollow and

[00:48:33] I kind of I'm talking myself in circles here I kind of forget where I was going but

[00:48:38] I think I've learned through this journey through my experiences in sport that

[00:48:45] oh god it's such a cliche it's okay it's only it's only meaningful if you have

[00:48:49] others around you who also feel like it's meaningful and who you feel connected to

[00:48:55] and I just I get that more here now and I think it does happen you do arrive at that realization

[00:49:04] through a lot of internal work like becoming self-aware allows you to realize how self absorbed

[00:49:13] you might have been and maybe still are yeah and yeah and also how important those relationships

[00:49:21] are for you as an individual but I think you know you could look at it in a selfish way and say okay

[00:49:28] well the relationships are important to me because they make me feel better but I also I mean

[00:49:32] it goes there's two there's two two directions there and and I speak as somebody who

[00:49:38] I hope and I love I hope to be and I love to be as much as I can a part of support systems for other

[00:49:44] people and I definitely find that very fulfilling and I would venture to guess that all of the

[00:49:52] people that you named in that support system of yours also you know find their relationship

[00:49:58] with you and you being a part of their lives as something that's really important for them

[00:50:02] too so it's you know it's not just one way but yeah I think it's easy to look at that self work or the

[00:50:12] the self-directed kind of air also air quotes selfish goal of going to the Olympics or something

[00:50:17] like that as being purely selfish but I think what I'm trying to get at in a roundabout way is

[00:50:24] all of that work that you do it does have a ripple effect right on your relationships and

[00:50:30] and your place in the community and and all of the work that you've done

[00:50:34] you know whether or not this was something that you set out to do has really positioned you as a

[00:50:39] leader in the cycling community in terms of advocating for mental health and helping other

[00:50:44] people feel comfortable reaching out and talking about their experience do you see yourself as a

[00:50:51] leader do you see yourself in that role well first thank you for saying that but

[00:50:56] I mean no not really like I I definitely am someone with a low sense of self-worth and I

[00:51:04] don't say that at I don't say that like in a fishing way I believe that and that's part of my problems

[00:51:11] probably in some ways too like I I'm not jaded but I sometimes wish that I had more freedom to

[00:51:23] grow beyond this like I had that I might have more freedom to grow beyond the eating disorder girl

[00:51:29] yeah but I also recognize that like I needed this when I was 14 I needed someone who was talking

[00:51:36] about this and nobody was like we did not it's crazy to think that that 15 years ago we mental

[00:51:43] health was still not really in the popular world like we didn't talk about it and that's crazy

[00:51:51] like I didn't know anybody else who had had an eating disorder and of course I did like

[00:51:57] if you hold up my high school class you could probably today there's probably I don't even

[00:52:03] know what the percentage is five percent of people yeah I can't remember but we just didn't

[00:52:07] talk about it and I needed that and so I have tried to I don't know if I've successfully done

[00:52:12] it but I've tried to be that person that I was missing at the time and I don't ever resent it

[00:52:19] I don't but I sometimes wish that I just wish that we didn't have to deal with it still I guess

[00:52:25] I guess that's what it is like I wish that I didn't have to be that for if I am that for other people

[00:52:32] but alas that's where we're at well for what it's worth I think that you are

[00:52:36] because just in the research that I did reading your interviews and and stories the comments

[00:52:42] of people you know expressing appreciation for you talking about these things and what

[00:52:46] a difference it's made for them like it's it's very clear like you have made a huge difference

[00:52:51] for a lot of people and it's not an easy thing to do it's not something that you asked for but as

[00:52:56] you said like it you needed somebody like this you see that void and you see that need and I

[00:53:03] think it's it's really a beautiful thing that you've stepped into that at what point do you

[00:53:08] think that you felt because this has spanned a long period of time and it's been that 15

[00:53:13] years span where you know there were at that early stage no one was talking about it

[00:53:18] was there a point at which you remember like finally feeling comfortable talking openly about

[00:53:23] it or was it more of a process it was probably a process but I there was a distinct moment where

[00:53:29] I actually wrote it was after nationals in 2013 so 10 years ago I was 20 and I had

[00:53:38] finally I had had a race at nationals where I felt like I was able to like let go of my

[00:53:46] self-hatred basically and like I felt I just I didn't win I I play second but it was just like

[00:53:53] wow I feel I feel free and so I wrote a basically like a confessional and and it was

[00:54:03] published in Canadian on Canadian cyclists which is an online news platform and I I asked Rob the

[00:54:12] editor to put it out there I was like hey I want to talk about this I want to tell people that

[00:54:17] this is my experience because I think people probably will relate to it and then here's

[00:54:22] this piece so I it was a conscious choice and I did it when I felt like I wasn't ashamed of it

[00:54:29] anymore probably yeah what that amounted to and how did it feel putting that out into the world

[00:54:35] I mean in some ways it's self-serving right because it makes you give yourself meaning kind of like

[00:54:42] you're like I think that you know but it felt relieving it felt I think a lot of people

[00:54:49] close to me didn't understand why I was the way I was and I think they probably understood

[00:54:54] a little bit more I also felt I remember feeling very confident in the way that I was sure I would

[00:55:00] be okay telling people about it and wow that it wasn't that I was sure I wouldn't be judged it was

[00:55:06] more just that I was sure that if I was judged it didn't matter but the response was not judgy

[00:55:13] at all it was all like positive and people reaching out saying they'd had similar things and

[00:55:20] whatnot so it gave me a lot of faith in people I think just with how positive it was

[00:55:28] that's wonderful and I mean what a what an amazing place to get to to feel that you were open to

[00:55:34] incapable of absorbing whatever response came of putting that out into the world that's that's

[00:55:42] that's really powerful that's I think it's it's not even necessarily absorbing the response

[00:55:48] because it's also it's like it's the ability to and deflect is the wrong word too because that

[00:55:54] makes it feel like I'm actively doing something but it was more I felt that I'm I'm rubber in your

[00:56:01] glue like it just wouldn't stick like it would just I just felt confident that it wouldn't

[00:56:06] the negative just wouldn't wouldn't land it wouldn't have a spot that's awesome you've

[00:56:12] talked about your sense of purpose a lot and we've we've touched on this at the very beginning

[00:56:16] as being kind of one of the one of the aspects of mountain biking that quite literally helped

[00:56:23] save your life has your sense of purpose changed over the course of your career for sure I mean

[00:56:28] for a long time it was driven by that need to prove that you don't have to be a diagnosis and

[00:56:34] that you can chase goals and you know work through these things no matter where you're at

[00:56:40] in your life and that was I mean specifically with context or with with the idea of being able to

[00:56:46] influence young girls who are in a similar position as me yeah but it's evolved and become

[00:56:51] much more complicated over time and I think now it's I'm motivated by chasing I'm personally

[00:56:58] motivated to chase my absolute potential because I find that incredibly fulfilling

[00:57:03] but a large part of it is advancing how we value sport and recreation and particularly

[00:57:12] outdoor based sport for improving our mental health and connecting to others into ourselves

[00:57:18] and I find that like invigorating to think about so you know those combined purposes of

[00:57:25] feeling fulfilled by how far I can push myself and how well I can execute

[00:57:31] so I guess I'm describing like motivated by a sense of mastery probably yeah and then

[00:57:36] yeah just the promoting a lifestyle that takes care of ourselves and helps us take

[00:57:42] care of the planet and each other yeah I think purpose is such a loaded word for just right

[00:57:50] off the bat but also I think I at least have struggled with this and I know I've talked to

[00:57:55] other people who've struggled with this and wanting to find a sense of purpose and I have

[00:58:00] certainly encountered people in my life who for whatever reason at some point relatively early

[00:58:05] in life they just they latch on to some north star and they're just like this is this is my thing

[00:58:11] and they never question it and they're just like that's their thing and it's it's good

[00:58:16] and it's simple and it's consistent and they've got their thing and that's never been the

[00:58:21] case for me and I've sometimes really struggled with that and felt like you know a lot of self

[00:58:27] judgment about that like oh there's something wrong with me that I haven't figured out my

[00:58:30] purpose yet and I got to figure out my purpose and find my passion and you know all of the

[00:58:35] the buzz catchphrases and what I love about what you're describing is that there's a

[00:58:39] fluency to that sense of purpose and I think that that can feel really uncomfortable sometimes

[00:58:46] because it feels like you know you're supposed to have like this one big purpose but

[00:58:50] to have that fluency with it and just to to move with the evolution of meaning and purpose is

[00:58:58] really really interesting is that is that something that you've struggled with is it

[00:59:01] something that's been natural like how has that been for you no definitely definitely

[00:59:05] struggled with it and it's like you said it's changed over time there are periods of time

[00:59:10] where I've like probably gone through depressive periods and it doesn't it just doesn't land

[00:59:15] like I don't feel it yeah if you're deep in a training block and you're really tired and thus

[00:59:21] dealt to emotion or to inspiration it doesn't feel like I have a purpose at all I get very like

[00:59:28] morose I suppose but yeah it's definitely like it's not consistent and it we're conflating

[00:59:35] like purpose and motivation it's not it's not consistent it it goes and comes over time and

[00:59:41] you just have to let it happen and I think I probably also want to draw the fact there that

[00:59:46] at least half of my purpose is very much just about like the experience of my personal experience

[00:59:53] in what I'm doing like by gracing I enjoy um and it's I enjoy the sensations of trying to

[01:00:00] push myself to my limits and that's a purpose in and of itself like you don't have to have

[01:00:06] this grand passion or or purpose that impacts the world it can just be like you know taking care of

[01:00:14] your family or like being alive and learning to experience enjoyment is a purpose as well

[01:00:22] that your purpose doesn't have to be singular um it can be a bunch of many different small

[01:00:27] things that contribute to a fulfilling life and I would say that like like my passion probably

[01:00:34] isn't necessarily bike racing my passion is probably pursuing things and I think a lot of people would

[01:00:43] also say they feel that and it doesn't really matter what you do as long as it's not harmful to others

[01:00:49] so just pick something that you like it makes you feel kind of good and then get lost in the

[01:00:54] process of chipping away at it oh that's so good that's so good so you you mentioned

[01:01:02] something in passing and I want to go back to it because I with all of your experience your personal

[01:01:08] experience your expertise everything that you've learned in your life but also in your your formal

[01:01:13] studies when you look at sports if you could change anything about the culture of sport

[01:01:20] what do you what would you want to see change hmm I still think um how we

[01:01:27] how we talk about women in sport and how they're how we're perceived needs to change it's I'm pretty

[01:01:33] excited about the professional women's hockey league to see that going and um I think those

[01:01:39] things are still need progress um definitely in the cycling world for sure yeah yeah I think that

[01:01:48] I think that the way that we the way that sport has become professionalized and

[01:01:56] the way that national federations target the Olympics is probably a little bit skewed that

[01:02:02] I would like to see change and then in the in the cycling world it is making progress but

[01:02:10] the way that we talk about food and bodies especially with women yes is still very archaic and

[01:02:19] I get frustrated with it I'm so there we go on that big time and for what it's worth I think that

[01:02:27] everything that you're doing with sharing your story being out there you know competing and

[01:02:33] and being so open about your evolution not only as an athlete but as a person I I think it's

[01:02:38] really going a long way to shifting that and so for what it's worth thank you for being a good wheel

[01:02:47] and I want to be mindful of the time because um you do have some place to be today so before we end

[01:02:53] though I just and I understand that the answer to this question is probably is a tough question

[01:02:57] to answer and there's probably a lot of people out there but we are the be a good wheel podcast

[01:03:02] so I'm just curious is there anyone top of your head that you'd like to give a shout out

[01:03:06] for being a good wheel in your life oh man so many um it's a hard one I think that I think the

[01:03:14] easiest one for me like my mind automatically goes to all my competitors and my family but

[01:03:19] the easiest one for me is um the coach that I worked with for so long Dan Prue like he has been

[01:03:25] my Yoda and I think he has in a in this in a world and in a sport paradigm where it has

[01:03:34] we have seen a lot of toxicity and we just really negative focus and outcomes and outdated

[01:03:42] approaches to sport science he has from day one been not like that like he has been the

[01:03:47] epitome of a positive coach and yeah he just he's just uh he's just yeah he's probably the best

[01:03:53] wheel I know and he's a bike rider so it works but I love it I love it well thank you so much

[01:03:59] for joining us today Hailey I really appreciate all of your insights and honestly I I get I get so

[01:04:05] excited about these conversations and I just thank you for being willing to geek out with me today

[01:04:09] that was really really fun yeah thanks for asking me I was thrilled to be on so fun and

[01:04:15] again thank you for sharing your story and being such a force for good in the sport um

[01:04:20] we will make sure to include in the show notes all the ways that you can get in

[01:04:23] touch with Hailey and follow her journey and her story and um Hailey thanks for being on and

[01:04:28] thanks for being a good wheel yeah thank you what really came through in speaking with Hailey was how

[01:04:34] thoughtfully she has integrated her academic perspectives on psychology with what she's

[01:04:38] learned experientially from challenges she chooses for herself as an athlete and those she

[01:04:43] had no choice but to face what emerges is a compassionate and nuanced approach which allows

[01:04:49] the driven competitor and vulnerable human being to not only coexist but actually strengthen

[01:04:54] one another I have to admit I got a little carried away at times in my own enthusiasm for these topics

[01:05:00] and I'm grateful to Hailey for indulging me and especially for sharing the considerable wisdom

[01:05:05] she possesses I hope we get to hear more from her in the future thank you for joining us for

[01:05:11] today's episode if you loved today's show remember to subscribe and leave us a five star

[01:05:15] review the be a good wheel podcast is produced by our wizard behind the curtain Maxine Filivon

[01:05:20] find all published episodes and sign up for a newsletter at be a good wheel calm

[01:05:25] you can also listen wherever you get your podcasts support for the show comes entirely from listeners

[01:05:30] like you sign up on co-fi to get extended guest interviews bonus episodes official be a good wheel

[01:05:36] merch and more go to co-fi.com slash be a good wheel and help us keep the show going that's

[01:05:42] co-fi co-fi.com slash be a good wheel until next time thanks for listening and thanks for being a good wheel