Heartbreak, Determination, and Living Out Loud with Lea Davison

[00:00:00] By far the hardest year of my career.

[00:00:04] And I mean, one of the hardest years of my life.

[00:00:09] And I, you just never know, you know, like you never know what's going to happen.

[00:00:16] So in the years after that year, I retired, I raised domestically, I retired from World

[00:00:23] Cups, raised domestically, retired from racing a year ago.

[00:00:28] And I have been mining and excavating that experience from that year and speaking about it.

[00:00:37] Like the amount of learning that I took away from that, I mean, some could see it as a giant failure.

[00:00:46] Like in all, if you want to define it like that, it was a failure.

[00:00:51] Really, I failed to make the Olympic team.

[00:00:54] And what I have taken away from that and what I've learned and then gone on to essentially

[00:01:02] start my next career is speaking about that year.

[00:01:08] And so it was also a gift.

[00:01:10] That's two time Olympian and eight time national champion mountain biking superstar,

[00:01:15] Leah Davison, describing how the devastation of not qualifying for what would have been

[00:01:19] her last shot at the Olympic Games has proven more valuable than she could have imagined.

[00:01:24] Today, Leah shares her story with unflinching honesty and euphoric highs to the very raw

[00:01:29] heartbreaks she navigated throughout her career.

[00:01:31] We talk about her path to publicly coming out as a gay athlete and how she's embracing

[00:01:35] her chance to become a role model she always needed.

[00:01:40] You're listening to the Be A Good Wheel podcast, the show where we explore what it means

[00:01:44] to be a good wheel by digging into scientific research and personal stories

[00:01:47] about human potential and performance.

[00:01:50] I'm your host, Amber Pierce.

[00:01:55] Hailing from Jericho, Vermont, Leah's athletic journey included cross country running,

[00:02:01] swimming and even windsurfing, instilling a whole hearted appreciation for sport.

[00:02:06] Her Olympic dreams, however, initially took shape on the ski slopes with dreams of

[00:02:10] qualifying for the Winter Games in downhill ski racing.

[00:02:12] In high school, just when that dream began to seem out of reach, she discovered

[00:02:16] mountain biking and the rest, as they say, is history.

[00:02:20] She would go on to carve out one of the most celebrated and impactful careers

[00:02:24] in American mountain biking, but not before graduating from Middlebury College,

[00:02:28] one of the most competitive and highly ranked colleges in the United States.

[00:02:32] Her mountain biking career spanned over two decades, starting in 2001,

[00:02:37] when she won a junior national race in Vermont unintentionally

[00:02:40] qualifying for the World Championships.

[00:02:42] She formally announced her retirement in February of 2022.

[00:02:46] By then, she had earned eight national championship titles, Silver

[00:02:50] and Bronze World Championship medals and had represented the United

[00:02:53] States in both the London and Rio Olympic Games.

[00:02:57] Leah knows what it takes to compete at the highest level, yet perhaps even more

[00:03:00] impressive than her accolades on the race course is Leah's commitment

[00:03:04] to giving back to the sport she loves.

[00:03:06] In the run up to the Tokyo Games, her final chance to qualify for

[00:03:09] and medal at the Olympics, she committed herself to helping her

[00:03:13] compatriots earn results that would help them qualify for the Games,

[00:03:16] knowing even then that not all of them would make the team

[00:03:20] and that she could be helping someone else take her spot.

[00:03:23] It's a beautiful story we get to hear in this episode.

[00:03:26] She and her sister Sabra, also a mountain biking phenom and

[00:03:29] Middlebury graduate co-founded Little Bellas, a mentoring program

[00:03:33] aimed at empowering young girls through cycling.

[00:03:35] And Leah has become a role model and advocate for women and LGBTQ athletes,

[00:03:40] leveraging her personal experiences to make things better

[00:03:43] for athletes coming up in the sport.

[00:03:45] Leah is not only shaping the future of mountain biking,

[00:03:48] but also fostering a community built on empowerment,

[00:03:50] camaraderie and the sheer joy of riding.

[00:03:53] Today, we'll be delving into Leah's journey from her early days

[00:03:56] on the trails to the heights of Olympic competition.

[00:03:58] We'll explore her mindset as a competitor, her passion for mentorship,

[00:04:02] the challenges she's faced as a gay woman in sport

[00:04:04] and what she has planned for the future.

[00:04:06] I hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I did.

[00:04:10] Welcome everyone to this episode of the Be A Good Wheel podcast.

[00:04:13] It is my absolute pleasure today to introduce to you

[00:04:17] two-time Olympian Leah Davison.

[00:04:20] She's here with us today.

[00:04:21] Leah, thank you so much for joining us.

[00:04:23] Oh, thanks so much for having me.

[00:04:25] I'm so excited.

[00:04:27] Me too.

[00:04:28] So one of the questions I love to ask people is what was the moment?

[00:04:33] If you remember the moment or maybe it was more of a process,

[00:04:37] but do you recall what it was that really kind of drew you to the bike

[00:04:43] or made you know that like this is this is for me.

[00:04:46] This is my thing.

[00:04:47] Yeah.

[00:04:48] Yeah, there actually was a moment.

[00:04:50] So I was in high school and I was either a junior or senior senior

[00:04:57] and Dan Dabrowski, who was actually my boyfriend at the time.

[00:05:02] He was like, hey, why don't you stop running around in circles on the track?

[00:05:07] Because that's what I would do in the spring and like come try out this

[00:05:09] mountain biking thing.

[00:05:11] So this is like pre Nica, but our high school had a mountain bike club

[00:05:15] actually and we like raised against other local high school mountain

[00:05:20] bike clubs.

[00:05:21] I think there were like two and that's when I first discovered mountain

[00:05:27] biking and at the time I was running cross country in high school

[00:05:32] and then I was also downhill ski racing.

[00:05:34] So it's two very different sports.

[00:05:37] And I felt like mountain biking was the perfect combination of both of them.

[00:05:41] And we did some local races and then we went to Mount Snow, which was a

[00:05:48] national race, a Northern national at the time.

[00:05:51] And then also West Virginia at Snowshoe actually West Virginia.

[00:05:56] So that was the first time I've been to those venues.

[00:06:00] And I won one of those junior races and an official came up to

[00:06:05] me from USA Cycling.

[00:06:06] They said, hey, you won this race.

[00:06:09] You've just qualified for Worlds.

[00:06:11] And I was like, what?

[00:06:14] There's a world for this.

[00:06:16] Like there's a world championships and over that weekend I watched the

[00:06:20] pro women race and I saw that, oh, you could be a pro.

[00:06:24] You can make a living.

[00:06:26] There's a world championships for this.

[00:06:28] And then there is also an Olympics.

[00:06:30] And I thought, this is it.

[00:06:32] Like this is this is my ticket.

[00:06:34] This is what I'm doing.

[00:06:36] And because, you know, in the years prior to that, I always had this

[00:06:40] Olympic dream and I was trying to make it happen on ski on skis actually.

[00:06:45] So yeah, from that moment on, I'm like, I am doing this.

[00:06:49] This is what I'm doing.

[00:06:51] That's amazing.

[00:06:52] What was it?

[00:06:52] So you said you felt like it was the perfect combination of running and skiing.

[00:06:55] How can you can you elaborate on that a little bit?

[00:06:58] Yeah, running, you know, I learned through a phenomenal coach

[00:07:04] and team that I was on how to push my limits.

[00:07:08] So that's very key, as you know, in endurance sports.

[00:07:12] And then the downhill ski racing really gave me it feels similar to mountain biking actually,

[00:07:19] like and cycling in general, like cornering feels like arching on skis.

[00:07:24] You're looking ahead.

[00:07:25] You're looking for a line.

[00:07:27] So a lot of those skills that I had been working on for a long time

[00:07:32] in ski racing kind of came into play also on the mountain bike.

[00:07:35] Interesting.

[00:07:36] I love that.

[00:07:37] So it was kind of that like endurance pushing the limits of your physical endurance

[00:07:41] with the skill set of reading lines and having to do that at very high speeds.

[00:07:46] Yeah, technical terrain.

[00:07:48] Amber, this is a fun fact.

[00:07:50] So I ran in high school with Aaron Sullivan,

[00:07:56] who won the Foot Locker National Championships for running.

[00:08:00] And that's how I learned how to push my limits.

[00:08:03] I mean, my coach was like, you stick with Aaron on these intervals for as long as you can.

[00:08:08] And I was like, no, I can't do that.

[00:08:11] And she's like, no, just just stick with her for as long as you can.

[00:08:15] And on that day, I learned that I could go harder and longer than previous.

[00:08:19] And Aaron, when she graduated from Mount Mansfield High School, went on to run for Stanford.

[00:08:25] No way.

[00:08:26] Yes.

[00:08:26] Oh my gosh.

[00:08:27] Yeah. Such a small world.

[00:08:29] So totally.

[00:08:30] That I think we have a few questions here that we've talked about and discussed,

[00:08:34] but you know, we'll definitely jump around a little bit.

[00:08:36] And you just described such a perfect example of how competition can really bring out the best in you.

[00:08:48] And sometimes competition gets a bit of a bad rap as a zero sum game and being really cutthroat.

[00:08:53] Yeah.

[00:08:53] But what you described, you know, trying to keep up with Aaron helped you discover,

[00:08:59] you know, of some strength and endurance that you didn't necessarily know that you had prior

[00:09:03] to trying to keep up with her.

[00:09:05] And this has been something that you have talked really passionately about in your career.

[00:09:08] And I love this is that sense of collaborative competition or competitive collaboration.

[00:09:14] Yeah, exactly.

[00:09:16] Safe concept.

[00:09:17] Yeah.

[00:09:18] Yeah.

[00:09:19] So talk to me a little bit about that because you've got some really great examples of your

[00:09:22] in your career of this.

[00:09:23] Yeah. Thanks so much for bringing that up.

[00:09:25] And you just described it really beautifully, actually.

[00:09:29] I mean, I've never looked at it from the nuance of like competition getting a bad rap and like,

[00:09:36] and you're right, especially in an individual sport, it's like every woman for themselves,

[00:09:43] like, I'm going to do this all or nothing.

[00:09:47] You know, like there's so much language out there of like, I'm going to crush you and that's

[00:09:53] the only way and we can't be friends.

[00:09:55] Right?

[00:09:55] Yeah.

[00:09:56] It's not a connecting experience.

[00:09:59] In fact, it's like a it's a divisive experience.

[00:10:03] And so yeah, competitive collaboration is kind of turning that idea on its head,

[00:10:08] especially in an individual sport like mountain biking.

[00:10:12] And it's approaching this sport as a team.

[00:10:17] And so it's like, wait a second, actually, if we're spending all of our time racing each other,

[00:10:24] right?

[00:10:24] I'm just talking about the American women, for example.

[00:10:27] So like, I'm fighting you for an Olympic spot.

[00:10:31] So I'm going to like keep all these secrets and we're not going to ride together.

[00:10:36] And I'm going to beat you in this race.

[00:10:39] And it's like, wait a second.

[00:10:41] We have the entire world to race against.

[00:10:45] So actually, we have plenty of competition out there.

[00:10:48] So why not use each other as more of a source of information and support

[00:10:55] and a way to make each other better?

[00:10:59] Essentially.

[00:10:59] So let's work together on the course pre-rides.

[00:11:03] Let's ride with each other.

[00:11:05] If Kate, for example, I was teammates with Kate Corny for a while and specialized.

[00:11:11] So her being a younger rider, her strength was just like sending it.

[00:11:16] I'm going to send it off these drops.

[00:11:18] I'm going to send it off these jumps.

[00:11:20] And not so much mine.

[00:11:22] So my strength was the technical, on-the-ground rock gardens and slippery stuff.

[00:11:31] And so she would lead me off of these drops that I wasn't feeling that comfortable on.

[00:11:37] And then I would lead her down these technical rock gardens.

[00:11:41] And that is part of competitive collaboration.

[00:11:44] And it's like, yeah, it's actually, I think all of the best of competition.

[00:11:50] I love that.

[00:11:50] And you guys did this in a really organized manner leading up to the Rio Olympics, right?

[00:11:54] You called it, what was it, Team USA?

[00:11:56] Yes.

[00:11:57] That was actually Kate's term.

[00:11:59] She came up with that.

[00:12:00] I love that.

[00:12:00] So good.

[00:12:01] Actually, this was leading up to Tokyo because.

[00:12:04] Tokyo.

[00:12:05] Yeah, Tokyo for the first time in history, historically the top ranked eight nations got

[00:12:13] two spots.

[00:12:15] And then for the women and the men of course got three spots.

[00:12:18] And they made it equal for the Tokyo Olympics.

[00:12:22] So the top two ranked nations got three spots and then going down two spots and then one spot.

[00:12:30] And so it was, yeah, it was a solution to a challenge, right?

[00:12:34] It was like better for everybody if we had more spots because if we have three spots,

[00:12:41] I have a more, I'm more likely to qualify, right?

[00:12:44] Right.

[00:12:44] And so it created this team dynamic a little bit, which was already there

[00:12:49] because Aaron Huck, Chloe Woodruff and myself were all privateers and then we would travel with USA

[00:12:57] Cycling and USA Cycling would become our trade team for lack of a better word for the World Cups.

[00:13:05] And so we were already Team USA, like we had the foundation there.

[00:13:12] And we were very intentional about, hey, how are we going to work together to get enough points

[00:13:19] to be ranked top two in the world and get three Olympic spots?

[00:13:24] Yeah.

[00:13:24] That's, I love this.

[00:13:25] So just to clarify that when, when Leah says talks about being a privateer, this is

[00:13:29] you're putting together your own suite of sponsors who weren't necessarily part of

[00:13:33] an established professional team.

[00:13:35] And that was kind of putting together your financial and equipment package for the

[00:13:39] for the season.

[00:13:40] And then USA Cycling functioning as a trade team is sort of like the, the national team stepped

[00:13:46] in to provide the support that a professional team typically would in that situation.

[00:13:50] Yeah.

[00:13:50] At the races.

[00:13:51] So Swan year, that's a massage therapist helps with feeding, mechanic,

[00:13:57] vans, like all the infrastructure of a team and the personnel that you need to

[00:14:03] succeed at the highest level.

[00:14:05] Yeah.

[00:14:05] I love this because on the face of it, you would think that if each person was acting

[00:14:08] in their own self-interest, you know, everybody wants one of those Olympic

[00:14:12] births.

[00:14:12] But what you were able to do as a group is to identify that you all had this

[00:14:16] one common interest, which was to have as many spots open for the Olympics as

[00:14:21] possible and to work together around that common interest.

[00:14:25] I just think that's such a beautiful thing.

[00:14:26] And yes, it is beautiful.

[00:14:28] It definitely was beautiful.

[00:14:30] And I don't think it's often been done, you know?

[00:14:35] Yeah.

[00:14:35] In, you hear little snippets and stories here and there about running and like

[00:14:41] Shalene Flanagan and her, you know, lift as you rise.

[00:14:46] And so you have like in simple terms, like a friend group and a posse when you make

[00:14:54] it to the top, you know, it doesn't, it doesn't have to be lonely at the top.

[00:14:58] Exactly.

[00:14:59] I do think that it happens, but it's not something that we talk enough about because,

[00:15:04] you know, I do think that there's so much as you put it rhetoric that makes competition

[00:15:10] sound or it's frames competition as being so divisive and, you know, maybe negative,

[00:15:16] but like just really hardcore and not exactly what you would think of as being collaborative.

[00:15:22] Yes.

[00:15:24] It's the opposite.

[00:15:25] It can be, but then at the same time, like I do think, you know, especially in the example

[00:15:29] that you're giving with Team USA, not only are you working toward a common interest,

[00:15:34] but in doing so, you're making each other better.

[00:15:37] So no matter what happens or who gets selected, you all come out of that experience as

[00:15:43] better athletes than you would have.

[00:15:46] Had you, as you put it kind of like hunker down, looked after yourself,

[00:15:50] not shared information, not challenged each other, not helped each other?

[00:15:55] Did you feel like that was the case for you?

[00:15:56] Did you come out of that better than you think you would have otherwise?

[00:15:59] Oh, absolutely.

[00:16:00] I mean, absolutely.

[00:16:01] And I am an extrovert.

[00:16:04] So I'm interacting with others, you know, and we all come, we're all different, right?

[00:16:11] So Chloe a little bit more introverted and she's still, you know,

[00:16:14] she was still all in on this teamwork.

[00:16:18] And the whole, yeah, the whole concept behind competitive collaboration is

[00:16:23] you bring your best, I'll bring my best and together we will rise.

[00:16:28] I love that.

[00:16:29] So this is not like a, oh, you know, I want you to go easier because you're better than me,

[00:16:37] right?

[00:16:37] Right.

[00:16:37] So like take it easy on me.

[00:16:39] It's like, no, bring it.

[00:16:41] Yes.

[00:16:41] Because I want to know how I stack up against you.

[00:16:45] Yes.

[00:16:46] That's like an honest taken and from that knowledge, I'll know how I can get better.

[00:16:51] Like what are my strengths?

[00:16:53] What are my weaknesses?

[00:16:54] And the other major side benefit that I found through the whole Tokyo process of qualification and

[00:17:03] is when you work together and truly help each other,

[00:17:08] you can celebrate each other's victories and you can, because you can own like a very small part of

[00:17:15] that person's win.

[00:17:17] And that is way more fun than being devastated, right?

[00:17:23] Like of course you want to win.

[00:17:25] Of course your heart breaks.

[00:17:27] And you know that a piece of you is there in that win.

[00:17:32] So when I got injured and I didn't end up getting selected for Tokyo, this came in big time for me

[00:17:40] because I felt like I was part of my teammates who were competing in Tokyo, you know?

[00:17:49] And I was represented and part of that process.

[00:17:53] So that was a small, I don't even want to say silver lining because the whole thing

[00:17:59] was devastating and heartbreaking, but it was a little bit of a solve, you know, on that like ache

[00:18:05] and heart.

[00:18:06] And devastating and heartbreaking in the sense, just specifically because

[00:18:10] you didn't get to make that team.

[00:18:11] Yes, yeah, exactly.

[00:18:13] Tokyo, you know, I had competed in London, I came in 11th.

[00:18:17] I competed in Rio Olympics 2016, I came in 7th.

[00:18:22] And so I felt like Tokyo, I knew my heart like that was kind of my last shot

[00:18:27] and I was on this great progression to metal, right?

[00:18:31] Like it was like, okay, let's just minus those places.

[00:18:36] Pretty clear trajectory.

[00:18:37] Yeah.

[00:18:38] And yes, for as we all know is not that simple, right?

[00:18:43] And injuries happen and I'm grateful.

[00:18:47] Well, I'm grateful that I got to compete in those two Olympics

[00:18:52] and I'm proud of those results.

[00:18:54] It's taken a while to get there.

[00:18:57] You know, it was always my dream to win an Olympic medal and these are these things that I've aimed for

[00:19:03] since I was a kid, right?

[00:19:05] So it's heartbreaking to miss out on that opportunity.

[00:19:09] Yeah.

[00:19:10] Now this was a story that you ended up sharing in a moth style talk that you delivered at Middlebury

[00:19:16] and I got to listen to that and if anybody who's listening, I will link it in the show notes.

[00:19:20] It's a beautiful, beautiful piece, Leah, but do you mind sharing a little bit of that story here?

[00:19:26] Yeah, sure.

[00:19:27] I can definitely share it.

[00:19:28] I love it.

[00:19:29] I'm sharing it in front of an audience now and gave it life and air.

[00:19:35] So yeah, that story that I told at Middlebury was a story that I've never told

[00:19:41] not to anyone really that knew the full extent, not even my parents, that my coach that came to

[00:19:48] that moth story that I gave knew the full extent.

[00:19:53] I mean, really the only one that knew was Frayser, my wife because she lived this experience alongside me.

[00:20:02] So that was a really powerful thing to tell that story and it felt like a good moment to do that.

[00:20:08] So the story is that a little bit what I touched on, right?

[00:20:13] I'm on this natural progression and I finished the Rio Olympics in seventh.

[00:20:20] And before Rio, I was a medal favorite because I had won a Silver World Championship medal

[00:20:28] racing against all the same women a month prior to the Rio Olympics.

[00:20:32] So being a medal favorite, you know, that's all the media and anyone can talk about.

[00:20:39] The pressure is very high.

[00:20:40] And so I crossed that line.

[00:20:43] It didn't work out on that day.

[00:20:44] I mean, you need to have an absolutely phenomenal day and it's one day out of all the days.

[00:20:53] Yeah.

[00:20:53] So such a harsh truth.

[00:20:56] It is.

[00:20:56] Yeah.

[00:20:57] And you train a lifetime for this moment and sometimes, yeah, it's you're not having a good day.

[00:21:03] So I mean, I still did have a good day, but you need to have a phenomenal day

[00:21:08] to an Olympic medal.

[00:21:09] So I crossed that line in seventh.

[00:21:12] And at that time, yeah, I was I was disappointed, you know, like you walk through the media mix zone,

[00:21:20] you see all these women who you've beat before, you know, getting interviewed by the press.

[00:21:27] And it took me a while to kind of like wake up from that moment and that disappointment

[00:21:36] and go, okay, wait, I still have four years to make it happen.

[00:21:42] Like let's go, you know?

[00:21:45] And so fast forward for years, I'm raging going into 2020.

[00:21:54] And we all know what happened then.

[00:21:56] Oh yeah.

[00:21:56] It happened.

[00:21:57] And so the Olympics got postponed.

[00:22:00] And I really think that didn't favor the older athletes.

[00:22:05] It favored the younger ones because we're just like, hanging on my thread.

[00:22:10] Yeah.

[00:22:12] Like, okay, I have, you know, I know I have this much more hard work left in me and it takes

[00:22:17] a lot to like bring yourself up for all that hard training.

[00:22:21] So yeah, naturally it got an espresso machine.

[00:22:28] That's the deal.

[00:22:30] Oh my gosh.

[00:22:30] Okay.

[00:22:31] So you got an espresso machine, which is like just the most like poetic response to this.

[00:22:38] I know.

[00:22:39] If the Olympics are going to be postponed, I need some caffeine to get through this extra

[00:22:46] year of hard work and I never drink caffeine or coffee before.

[00:22:50] Oh my gosh.

[00:22:51] Now avid coffee trick.

[00:22:53] Okay.

[00:22:53] So that was a great training tool.

[00:22:56] Major life shift.

[00:22:57] Major life shift.

[00:22:58] Yes.

[00:23:00] Yes.

[00:23:00] Welcome to the dark side, by the way.

[00:23:02] Yeah.

[00:23:03] Oh, it's so wonderful.

[00:23:05] So much more fun.

[00:23:08] So yeah, I trained very hard, raced on Zwift like was still so fit because I wasn't

[00:23:19] traveling.

[00:23:20] So I could just put in these giant training blocks and still get that racing effort

[00:23:26] on Zwift where I did like the women's tour to France, like virtually, you know,

[00:23:31] I was doing all these crazy races.

[00:23:33] So I entered the 2021 season like, all right, let's go.

[00:23:38] Like I'm psyched and literally the first day of training where I was lifting

[00:23:46] and doing a hex bar squat, like I've done millions of times and I feel like

[00:23:53] something happened to my back and I'm like, oh my god.

[00:23:56] Oh no.

[00:23:57] Like I just knew I'm like everything needs to line up perfectly to make an Olympic

[00:24:04] dream come true and this is not good.

[00:24:06] And I still have time.

[00:24:09] It's November.

[00:24:09] So here we go.

[00:24:11] Like let's assemble the squad, strength coach, everybody.

[00:24:15] And then I'm training.

[00:24:17] I go to Denton at Asheville, North Carolina.

[00:24:20] It's snowing Vermont where I live.

[00:24:22] And I'm putting in another big training block, huge.

[00:24:27] And yeah, it was like seven days in a row, really pushing my limits.

[00:24:35] And I'm carrying my bike up the stairs.

[00:24:37] This is like end of December and I'm carrying my bike up the stairs and it happens again.

[00:24:44] And this time worse, like I like collapse on my hands and knees and I'm just sobbing.

[00:24:51] Like uncontrollably because I know like, okay now I'm really screwed.

[00:24:57] Like it's almost January and this is really not good because I really did something.

[00:25:04] So I just threw the kitchen sink at it.

[00:25:08] I mean that's all I was like, I have to do everything in my power to try to get selected

[00:25:14] for this team because if I do anything less than that, I'm not going to be able to sleep at night.

[00:25:21] Right?

[00:25:21] It's just like do everything that I can to heal from this and get training and show up at that.

[00:25:30] You know, those first two world cups in the best shape that I can given the circumstances.

[00:25:35] Yeah.

[00:25:36] And that's what I did.

[00:25:37] I mean, I showed up at that start line and I never gave up through the whole process.

[00:25:45] And I gave it my all.

[00:25:47] I did the best I could.

[00:25:49] You know, it was a far cry from what I can do when I'm healthy and I didn't get selected for the team.

[00:25:58] So yeah, just it's devastating.

[00:26:01] I mean, it's really devastating.

[00:26:03] And then I thought once that it's hard to talk about how do you put it in words, right?

[00:26:15] That devastation.

[00:26:18] It was really a moment for me when I got that email because it like, you know, salt on the wound,

[00:26:26] it ranked us riders.

[00:26:29] The riders on the Olympic long team, you know, said like a little bit, a little blurb about us.

[00:26:35] And it said two things.

[00:26:38] One was pretty much Leah's legacy has paved the way for future generations to experience success in

[00:26:47] this sport.

[00:26:48] And she's over the hill, you know, like she doesn't have it anymore.

[00:26:53] And so naturally, I mean, that's a very nice thing to say to like give a nod and acknowledgement

[00:27:01] at like the trail I've paid.

[00:27:04] Yeah.

[00:27:04] You know, like I blazed.

[00:27:07] And, you know, naturally I was pissed.

[00:27:12] And that kind of my reaction was like, nope, nope, nope, nope.

[00:27:18] They don't get to define me.

[00:27:20] Yeah.

[00:27:20] Like and a lot of expletives.

[00:27:24] Like I define me like selection committee.

[00:27:28] You have no idea what I'm capable of.

[00:27:31] No idea.

[00:27:33] And so then I was from that moment on, I was like on a mission to like define myself in

[00:27:40] my career.

[00:27:41] These these people don't know me and they weren't going to define what I was capable of.

[00:27:47] So yeah, that's what I spent the rest of the season doing.

[00:27:50] And it did not go well until it did.

[00:27:57] I want to just dig into that for a second.

[00:28:00] So yeah, that reaction.

[00:28:02] There's a lot there.

[00:28:03] I mean, there are some layers here, right?

[00:28:05] And again, folks, if you haven't already seen this, please check out Lia's talk.

[00:28:11] It's shockingly beautiful.

[00:28:13] Like it's just shocked to the soul.

[00:28:15] It's so good.

[00:28:18] But I am just in awe of the fortitude, like just the emotional and like

[00:28:26] soul level fortitude that it took for you to say, you don't define me.

[00:28:30] I define me.

[00:28:31] Yeah.

[00:28:32] Do you think you could have done that or had that reaction in the beginning of your

[00:28:35] career?

[00:28:35] Is that is that kind of the level of self assurance that you had that you've

[00:28:39] always had?

[00:28:40] Or is that something that you think evolved?

[00:28:45] That is such a good question.

[00:28:47] I mean, I definitely think it evolved naturally because when we're young,

[00:28:52] we don't have that confidence.

[00:28:56] You know, you're like kind of looking forward and grappling with it.

[00:29:00] And it is something that I always knew.

[00:29:07] Like I had faith that it would work out because I'm just talking about like

[00:29:14] success in my career and making it to the next level because for one,

[00:29:18] I'm stubborn and I'm determined.

[00:29:21] And also, like I have this deeply held belief that this year, I mean,

[00:29:27] that year definitely challenged, but that hard work pays off.

[00:29:33] And so I'm like this has to pay off.

[00:29:38] Like I have put so much hard work into this.

[00:29:43] So let's stick with it to see it pay off because if I don't, I'm going to regret

[00:29:51] it.

[00:29:51] Yeah.

[00:29:52] I mean, it's as simple as that.

[00:29:53] Like I wanted no regrets in terms of like the buildup to that Olympic selection.

[00:29:59] And then afterwards, I didn't want any regrets of how I left my World Cup racing career.

[00:30:08] Like I knew I had it in me.

[00:30:11] So I don't know if that answers your question, but like I think it's something that develops for sure.

[00:30:17] Yeah.

[00:30:18] I think I mean, I know for me early on in my career, I remember very clearly just

[00:30:23] like constantly looking outside of myself for that validation.

[00:30:28] You know, like I needed, I wanted to find the coach that was going to tell me I could make it,

[00:30:33] you know, or I wanted to find the team with the director who was finally going to believe in me.

[00:30:39] And by the end of my career, I realized like, oh, it's the classic like it was with you all along.

[00:30:44] Yeah.

[00:30:44] God, it's like a hallmark movie, but it's true.

[00:30:48] But I love, like I got goosebumps when you were describing that just the conviction in your voice.

[00:30:57] Like you could just tell in your bones, you're like, I am walking away from this on my terms.

[00:31:01] And yeah, like you said, actually in one of the interviews I did with Elliot Jackson,

[00:31:06] he was like sports are like the least deterministic thing.

[00:31:09] And it's so true as much as hard work matters.

[00:31:12] There's so much that's beyond our control.

[00:31:15] Yes.

[00:31:15] And you were able to say, okay, this thing's not in my control, but you know what is

[00:31:20] how I walk away and what I do with this.

[00:31:22] And I just think that I just get goosebumps about that.

[00:31:25] That's so powerful.

[00:31:28] Yeah.

[00:31:28] And the interesting thing, I mean, thank you.

[00:31:31] I really appreciate that.

[00:31:34] Very kind words.

[00:31:35] And the interesting thing is this was by far the hardest year of my career.

[00:31:43] And I mean, one of the hardest years of my life.

[00:31:48] And you just never know, like you never know what's going to happen.

[00:31:56] So in the years after that year, I retired.

[00:32:01] I raised domestically.

[00:32:02] I retired from World Cups, raised domestically, retired from racing a year ago.

[00:32:07] And I have been mining and excavating that experience from that year and speaking about it.

[00:32:17] Like the amount of learning that I took away from that,

[00:32:21] I mean, some could see it as a giant failure.

[00:32:25] Right?

[00:32:25] Yeah.

[00:32:26] In all, if you want to define it like that, it was a failure.

[00:32:31] Really, I failed to make the Olympic team.

[00:32:34] And what I have taken away from that and what I've learned and then gone on

[00:32:40] to essentially start my next career is speaking about that year.

[00:32:46] Yeah.

[00:32:47] And so it was also a gift in a lot of ways.

[00:32:51] But did it feel like that at the time?

[00:32:53] Absolutely not.

[00:32:54] Does it feel like that all the time still?

[00:32:56] No.

[00:32:57] I mean, no.

[00:32:59] There are still moments.

[00:33:01] I mean, I'm still excavating.

[00:33:04] Well, let's talk about that part of taking the reins and walking away on your own terms

[00:33:10] because this did have a pretty amazingly uplifting kind of ending to that year.

[00:33:16] Yeah.

[00:33:16] It was the year of resilience.

[00:33:19] You would think like, okay, universe, throw me a pole.

[00:33:25] Did it get selected for the Olympic team?

[00:33:27] And here I am still out here racing.

[00:33:29] So like, can you please make it work out?

[00:33:33] And no.

[00:33:35] Like the first World Cup after that selection was made, I showed up and I raced

[00:33:40] and I got lapped and pulled from a World Cup.

[00:33:43] Like the last time that that had happened was 20 years ago in the beginning of my career

[00:33:50] because I had the wrong tires on.

[00:33:52] It was super muddy, blah, blah, blah.

[00:33:55] And then, okay, here I go.

[00:33:59] I'm feeling better.

[00:34:00] I'm finally feeling fit.

[00:34:02] I go and do this warm-up race before World Champs.

[00:34:08] And I'm like, this is it.

[00:34:09] You know, like I'm going to medal at World Champs.

[00:34:11] It's going to be awesome.

[00:34:12] And then I get in this major crash in this warm-up race in Switzerland.

[00:34:19] I fall on my face.

[00:34:20] I am worried about having a concussion because when you hit your face side note,

[00:34:25] you probably have a concussion.

[00:34:27] And so I sit out World Champs.

[00:34:31] And then, so I can do these races after World Champs, you know?

[00:34:35] Like so I can maybe have a race that I know I'm capable of.

[00:34:40] And at the next race in Lens or High Day, it was going well.

[00:34:45] And then I literally crashed off of a bridge.

[00:34:49] Like you cannot make this up.

[00:34:52] And I like crash and I get like, I fall on this stump

[00:34:57] and I essentially get punched, like an uppercut punch to the chin by this stump.

[00:35:03] Oh my gosh.

[00:35:03] And then I'm like, oh my god, do I have another concussion?

[00:35:07] You know, like I just got, but I finished that race

[00:35:10] and I had like a pretty solid result.

[00:35:11] Like I was in the top 20.

[00:35:13] So things were looking better, but did that go perfectly?

[00:35:16] No, it was like still rocky.

[00:35:18] You got punched by a tree.

[00:35:19] Like, I know.

[00:35:21] That's like really?

[00:35:23] I mean, I just kept being like, are you serious?

[00:35:27] Like can anything work out?

[00:35:30] And so it came down to the last World Cup of the season in West Virginia on home soil.

[00:35:40] And I'm like, please, please, please, please, please.

[00:35:44] I'm just like desperate to have this race that I know I can have.

[00:35:49] And I do, you know, I start, thankfully I'm on, this was in my favor.

[00:35:55] I was on the right side instead of the left.

[00:35:57] There was a huge crash on the left.

[00:36:00] I'm like, and I spend most of that race in the top 10.

[00:36:06] And as the first American, and it was just such a beautiful experience

[00:36:12] because I was the first American racing in front of a home crowd.

[00:36:16] I mean, everyone is like losing their mind and cheering.

[00:36:22] It gives me goosebumps.

[00:36:23] And I spend the majority of the race with Yolanda Neff on my wheel,

[00:36:30] like hanging onto my wheel for dear life until the last lap,

[00:36:34] which she does a classic Yolanda, it passes me on the downhill.

[00:36:38] It drops me.

[00:36:40] So, and Yolanda, I crossed that finish line and I kind of realized like, oh my gosh,

[00:36:48] Yolanda won the gold medal, the Olympic gold medal in Tokyo.

[00:36:54] And so it was just this beautiful moment of like, yeah, if things were like a little bit different,

[00:37:03] I can be in the mix like, and I could have been in the mix in Tokyo.

[00:37:07] So I'm not saying, I mean, of course, everything has to line up for a gold medal.

[00:37:12] And Yolanda is one of the best of all time.

[00:37:18] And it just provided this like very nice full circle closure moment that I needed.

[00:37:24] Like I needed that for me to have that race.

[00:37:27] And Yolanda and like being the first American on home soil, that was like the cherry on top.

[00:37:33] And I didn't know it at the time, but that was my last World Cup race.

[00:37:38] So, and they announced it as my last World Cup race even though-

[00:37:44] You hadn't announced it?

[00:37:45] I had announced it, but they thought I made some kind of announcement.

[00:37:49] But I'm glad that they did because it almost gave me that like send off,

[00:37:55] you know, that send off race that I wanted.

[00:37:57] So it was just, it was beautiful.

[00:37:59] That was the perfect expression of exactly what you said when you got that email telling you

[00:38:04] that you hadn't made the Olympic team like, I know what I'm capable of and you got the opportunity

[00:38:09] to fully express that on the bike.

[00:38:12] Yes. Thank goodness.

[00:38:14] Thank goodness that worked out because I don't know if I could have

[00:38:17] lasted for another year of training for the World Cup.

[00:38:21] How did you get, you know, those first few races afterwards where you were

[00:38:25] having this terrible race after race?

[00:38:27] You know, I just find it so impressive that, you know, you get the devastating news about

[00:38:31] the Olympics and then you have these really like just like terrible luck races back to back.

[00:38:37] I mean, again, the fortitude that it took to not just say, okay, maybe the universe is

[00:38:42] trying to tell me something like and say no, I know this is still in me.

[00:38:47] Yeah.

[00:38:47] How did you do that?

[00:38:49] I mean, I think it was two things like desperation.

[00:38:55] Like, I was desperate like to show up and have the race that I knew I could have.

[00:39:03] And I learned through that experience, like the only way through is directly through it,

[00:39:10] you know, like the only way through the heartbreak and this devastation of not making the

[00:39:17] Olympic team and all these feelings is straight through it.

[00:39:22] Like that's it.

[00:39:23] Like they're only going to grow these feelings if you like push them away and you build up walls

[00:39:31] and it's like, and that took me, you know, in the middle of an interval set, like pulling over

[00:39:40] and crying, like breaking down in tears in the middle of an interval set, like on a random

[00:39:48] dirt road in Vermont.

[00:39:49] And it's like, yep, okay, I need to feel this.

[00:39:52] Like this is grief.

[00:39:54] It's grief of an Olympic dream.

[00:39:56] And so it pops up at some weird times.

[00:39:59] As it does.

[00:40:00] And let me tell you, crying in intervals do not work.

[00:40:06] It does really make it hard, doesn't it?

[00:40:10] I've had some moments on the side of the road myself and yeah, it is.

[00:40:14] It doesn't make for a great workout.

[00:40:17] So it's like, okay, let's pull over and let's cry it out.

[00:40:20] And then let's finish the set.

[00:40:22] Like let's go.

[00:40:23] Well, this is such a great illustration of something I think is really important because

[00:40:28] again, one of the things that I came to the sport believing was that, oh, the best performers

[00:40:33] in the world are the best because they can just compartmentalize or they figured out how

[00:40:37] to not have these problems or, you know, they're super human in a way that they can like

[00:40:43] work around this somehow.

[00:40:44] And I thought that there was something wrong with me, that I was, you know, having these

[00:40:49] emotions and struggling with these things.

[00:40:51] And I, the longer I'm in the sport and the around other athletes, I realized like,

[00:40:55] oh, we are all human.

[00:40:57] We all have these, you know, but I think, you know, was there a time that you wouldn't

[00:41:02] have gone straight through?

[00:41:04] Oh yeah.

[00:41:05] I think so.

[00:41:05] Yes, for sure.

[00:41:07] I mean, I think that well, actually, I don't know.

[00:41:11] I mean, I think both things.

[00:41:14] Like yes and no because, you know, for a long time being gay is something that like I

[00:41:21] compartmentalize because I felt like I had to.

[00:41:25] Yeah.

[00:41:25] So yes.

[00:41:27] And then no because I'm a feeler.

[00:41:30] Yeah.

[00:41:30] So like, you're going to know any emotion, feeling like it is going to come out

[00:41:39] in full force.

[00:41:40] So yeah, I think both answers to that question.

[00:41:45] Yeah.

[00:41:46] Yeah.

[00:41:47] I think it's also maturity, right?

[00:41:49] Like as we get older.

[00:41:50] Yeah.

[00:41:51] Well, maturity and trial and error, right?

[00:41:53] Like I definitely tried to compartmentalize and fun fact did not work.

[00:41:59] Yes.

[00:42:00] Do not recommend one star.

[00:42:05] Doesn't work.

[00:42:07] I think it's just, I think it's so impressive that you just went head on with that.

[00:42:12] And you bring up another really important like component of your career, which was

[00:42:18] that I guess, and I don't know, was it a moment where you felt, was there a moment

[00:42:23] where you decided that you wanted to live more fully?

[00:42:27] I think in one of your posts, you described it as living out loud as yourself in terms

[00:42:32] because you had, and again, I'm cherry picking some quotes from other interviews

[00:42:36] that you've done, but I think that you described it as you had been quietly out

[00:42:40] and then decided that you wanted to step into that more fully.

[00:42:43] Was there a moment or was that more of an evolution for you?

[00:42:47] Yeah, that's, it is, that's a perfect way to describe my experiences.

[00:42:53] Like I am much better living out loud because I am in loud.

[00:43:00] It comes to life.

[00:43:02] Yeah, that comes much more naturally to me than being quiet.

[00:43:06] I have a long tumultuous history with librarians.

[00:43:13] So yeah, it was definitely a process in terms of the first step was like coming

[00:43:22] to grips with my sexuality, like myself, you know, because I was looking around and I didn't

[00:43:31] have a lot of role models to be like, oh, this is a gay person.

[00:43:37] I mean, honestly, I did not.

[00:43:39] I was like grappling and some of the only role models that I had were closeted.

[00:43:45] So that was actually like sending the opposite message.

[00:43:49] Then I needed at that moment.

[00:43:52] And so once I kind of came to terms with that and started dating women, then the next step was like,

[00:44:03] I don't feel like I can be my full authentic self in the cycling world.

[00:44:09] I mean, it was just as simple as that.

[00:44:12] Like I literally thought I had to make a choice between becoming an Olympian,

[00:44:18] you know, making my Olympic dreams come true and being gay.

[00:44:24] And oh God, that I mean, that is is devastating in and of itself.

[00:44:31] And it's like you I had this dream and so you sacrifice everything for it.

[00:44:38] And at the same time, it takes a village.

[00:44:42] So you need team support, you need sponsors, you need mechanics, you need

[00:44:47] Swan ears to give you massages.

[00:44:49] Like what if none of those people would do that?

[00:44:53] If they knew I was gay, you know, and what if I didn't get selected for a team because,

[00:44:59] you know, there was homophobia.

[00:45:00] So I had a real fear.

[00:45:03] I mean, real fear because I put in my life.

[00:45:06] This is my life's work.

[00:45:07] And then I feel like I need to I'm going to need to throw it away if I come out.

[00:45:14] And so I lived under the radar.

[00:45:17] I mean, my friends and family knew I was out and not not my teens really.

[00:45:23] I mean, I like kept it under wraps until I essentially met Frasier and

[00:45:32] yeah, just it was such like a beautiful evolution of love.

[00:45:37] I'm actually making these I'm making this connection right now.

[00:45:40] Oh, great.

[00:45:41] It was like welcome to our therapy session.

[00:45:48] I mean, I think part of like true authentic love is feeling enough.

[00:45:56] Right.

[00:45:56] So for one of the first times in my life, I felt enough like just

[00:46:03] however I was, however it was that day, however I showed up, it's like, yeah, you're enough.

[00:46:07] Leah.

[00:46:08] And so I think part of that gave me the confidence to be like, yeah, I'm enough.

[00:46:14] Like if I'm gay or not gay, this is me.

[00:46:18] So and that kind of coincided with then, you know, fast forward a little bit of time

[00:46:24] after we met, then we got engaged in 2018.

[00:46:27] And so it was the lead up to us getting married and Cliff bar.

[00:46:33] This is the importance of representation.

[00:46:37] So my contact at the time in marketing at Cliff bar is also gay.

[00:46:43] And so she knew that I was gay and I was engaged.

[00:46:47] And so it came time for Pride month.

[00:46:51] And everyone's looking around the room and going, do we have any gay athletes?

[00:46:55] I don't think we do.

[00:46:57] And she raised her hand, you know, that's the importance of representation.

[00:47:01] This is the ripple effect.

[00:47:04] And she said, yeah, we do.

[00:47:05] We actually, Leah is going to get married this fall.

[00:47:09] And they said, great, let's like throw her out there on social media and celebrate that.

[00:47:16] And for the first time, that aspect of myself was out there and it was celebrated.

[00:47:25] And that is such a powerful moment and gift for me because then it gave me permission like, oh my

[00:47:35] gosh, okay, my sponsors, like this is not something to be fearful of.

[00:47:40] Like they're going to actually celebrate it.

[00:47:42] That's amazing.

[00:47:43] And yeah.

[00:47:44] And so that set me free honestly.

[00:47:48] And I wanted to give that gift of freedom to others who may be grappling with the same thing.

[00:47:54] So it was very intentional to like, it was one of my missions on social media to like,

[00:48:02] okay, now I need to represent, I want to represent this.

[00:48:06] So to create more space and give visibility to like, yes, you can be gay.

[00:48:13] Yes, you can be an Olympian.

[00:48:15] And yes, you can be a sponsored athlete.

[00:48:17] Like have no fear.

[00:48:19] All of these things can exist.

[00:48:21] That's incredible.

[00:48:22] I'm curious because I feel like that could have gone a couple of different ways, right?

[00:48:27] Looking around the room, do we have a gay athlete?

[00:48:28] It could have gone the direction of feeling exploited, but you felt celebrated.

[00:48:33] What do you think was the difference?

[00:48:35] Oh, that is a good question.

[00:48:39] I've never been asked that question.

[00:48:42] You're good at this.

[00:48:45] Thank you.

[00:48:47] You know, maybe it was because I was being represented in that room by a fellow gay female.

[00:48:55] You know?

[00:48:56] So that was more of a gift.

[00:48:58] Like it felt real and authentic.

[00:49:01] That, yeah, that makes total sense.

[00:49:04] And all of this I think is so heartbreaking and empowering at the same time that you put

[00:49:11] all of you into this Olympic dream and then the dream itself forced you into a position

[00:49:18] where you couldn't be you.

[00:49:19] Yeah.

[00:49:21] Until Frasier.

[00:49:23] Yeah.

[00:49:24] And she's like, yeah, you're enough.

[00:49:25] I mean, that, oh, I got chills when you said that.

[00:49:27] I just, yeah.

[00:49:29] Yeah.

[00:49:30] It was the dream and it was more so a hostile cycling space.

[00:49:37] Mm-hmm.

[00:49:38] Yeah.

[00:49:39] Lacking representation.

[00:49:41] Yeah.

[00:49:42] Yeah.

[00:49:43] I mean, that was it until, you know, I'm at that point later in my career where I already have,

[00:49:55] I already have two Olympics under my belt, right?

[00:49:58] And I've already made that dream come true and now I have this other affirming

[00:50:06] experience with Cliff Bar and my other sponsors.

[00:50:10] And so it's like, okay, now I can be brave enough to come out from real and be out loud about it.

[00:50:19] And it still takes, man, I mean, it still takes a lot of courage because it's like,

[00:50:26] I have to come out every day.

[00:50:28] And I can make the choice whether or not to do that.

[00:50:32] And in some spaces, I mean, you're like looking for signs, right?

[00:50:36] Like you're constantly scanning, like is this a safe space for me?

[00:50:39] It's like that's why those like signals of like, yeah, you put the pride flag or the trans flag,

[00:50:46] like on your name tag or you, you know, I'm like looking for that flag like in a neighborhood.

[00:50:54] It's like, is this a safe space for me?

[00:50:55] So yeah, it still takes a little bit of courage when, especially when you're lacking

[00:51:01] those signals.

[00:51:03] Yeah, yeah, big time.

[00:51:04] And so you got to a point in your career where you had established yourself

[00:51:10] and established a platform that you could then use to become, I mean,

[00:51:15] you kind of became the role model that you didn't have.

[00:51:17] Yeah, totally.

[00:51:20] That's that was a mission.

[00:51:21] Yeah.

[00:51:21] Essentially.

[00:51:22] Yeah.

[00:51:22] And I mean, this is a challenge that, I mean, it's not something that,

[00:51:28] you know, says hetero folks really think about is having to look for those safe spaces and

[00:51:32] check in the cycling space, especially if this is a safe place for me.

[00:51:37] I mean, I feel like I've felt that way sometimes as a woman, but then also.

[00:51:40] Of course.

[00:51:41] Yeah.

[00:51:41] Yes.

[00:51:42] Of course.

[00:51:43] That part.

[00:51:45] But yeah, like this is, you know, and for a lot of folks, like it's,

[00:51:48] you know, visually, like if you're a different color, if you're a different size,

[00:51:52] like you don't, you don't even get the choice of whether you want to disclose or not disclose

[00:51:57] because it's right there for everybody to see and judge or include or not include.

[00:52:03] And, um,

[00:52:03] Absolutely.

[00:52:05] Yeah.

[00:52:05] Frazier played this obviously massive role in your life period, but also pivotal role in

[00:52:12] your career as an athlete.

[00:52:14] When you made your retirement announcement, you thanked so many people and you had

[00:52:20] so many people to thank.

[00:52:21] And I love that you had this beautiful village that you'd built around yourself to

[00:52:27] support you through this career.

[00:52:29] How did your village look at the end of your career versus at the beginning of your career?

[00:52:34] That is such an interesting question that I have honestly never pondered it

[00:52:41] at the end of my career, it looked bigger.

[00:52:44] Yeah.

[00:52:46] Because you don't know anybody, you know, at the beginning, you don't know anybody.

[00:52:52] So you're kind of like building and, and, you know, laying these bricks of this foundation

[00:52:58] and support village as you move through your career and meet everybody.

[00:53:04] I mean, I remember walking, being at my first DR classic with Trek BW on my first

[00:53:11] trade team and walking around the venue with Sue Haywood who was like,

[00:53:16] Legend.

[00:53:17] Legend.

[00:53:18] Yeah.

[00:53:19] And she was my mentor and my older teammate.

[00:53:22] I was very, very lucky to have her as an older teammate and she knew everybody and

[00:53:29] she's introducing me and, and I just remember thinking how am I going to first off remember

[00:53:36] all these names and then second off like, how does she know so many people?

[00:53:43] And now I walk around Seater and the same thing happens.

[00:53:48] You know, it's just like, hey, hey, hey, I mean, I can't walk 10 feet.

[00:53:52] You know, so you build community and you build a support network, I think,

[00:53:58] as we like progress and spend more time in the community is just like a natural thing.

[00:54:04] We'll hear more from Leah after this quick break.

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[00:55:37] And now back to our conversation with two-time Olympian

[00:55:39] and mountain biking superstar, Leo Davison.

[00:55:46] And another thing that you've mentioned,

[00:55:47] so I'm curious how you figured out what you needed,

[00:55:50] like what kind of support you needed in your village

[00:55:53] is one of the things that you've mentioned,

[00:55:54] and I've seen this in a few different interviews that I read with you,

[00:55:57] and I know this about you too, is how you know that you need different sports.

[00:56:04] Like you need to ski, you need to surf,

[00:56:07] you need to have these other sports integrated into your life experience

[00:56:12] in order for you to be the best athlete on the mountain bike that you can be.

[00:56:16] Which is so interesting because from the outside looking

[00:56:19] and somebody might look at that and say,

[00:56:21] oh, that's just, you know, that's a distraction.

[00:56:23] Why would you spend your time on a surfboard

[00:56:25] or on skis when you could be getting more miles on the bike?

[00:56:30] So I'm curious about this for two reasons.

[00:56:32] One, that it works.

[00:56:34] Like what is it about it that works for you?

[00:56:36] And two, how did you figure out that it worked for you

[00:56:39] and feel strong enough to be confident in that

[00:56:42] and not be swayed by somebody telling you like,

[00:56:44] oh, you should be spending more time on the mountain bike?

[00:56:47] Yes. Guess and check.

[00:56:50] I mean, there were definitely times where I was like,

[00:56:53] well, maybe I should ride all winter.

[00:56:57] You know, like maybe that's the thing I should do.

[00:57:00] So I feel like in the cycling world, like everyone's different.

[00:57:06] Right? So if you looked at it,

[00:57:08] it would be so interesting to compare

[00:57:12] everyone's training on the Olympic long team.

[00:57:15] Yeah.

[00:57:16] Because it would all be different in ways and in ways,

[00:57:20] it would all be the same.

[00:57:22] Right? And so I found that since I came into this sport at,

[00:57:29] you know, later in high school

[00:57:33] and I was already heavily invested in skiing

[00:57:37] and ski racing and running and like a youth of growing up

[00:57:42] of doing all these different things, I love skiing.

[00:57:47] Yeah.

[00:57:47] I mean, it's like my first love.

[00:57:49] And so I knew I needed something different

[00:57:54] because I would get burned out.

[00:57:56] You know, it takes so much work

[00:57:58] and I called them motivation matches, right?

[00:58:01] Ooh.

[00:58:02] Like you only have a finite amount

[00:58:05] of motivation matches during the season

[00:58:07] and it takes like strike one threshold workout

[00:58:12] you know, up a climb.

[00:58:15] There it goes.

[00:58:15] Maybe two.

[00:58:17] You know, the shootout in Tucson, a group ride,

[00:58:22] that's like a whole matchbox for me.

[00:58:24] I'm stressed.

[00:58:27] You know, we met while road racing

[00:58:30] and that is not my brother.

[00:58:31] Yeah.

[00:58:32] Oh man, very stressful.

[00:58:34] Yeah.

[00:58:35] So I learned in college actually,

[00:58:39] I had torn my ACL downhill ski racing after my freshman year

[00:58:45] and so I redshirted a season

[00:58:47] and during that season, I learned how to Nordic ski

[00:58:50] and I realized like, oh my, this is so hard.

[00:58:54] Like, it's so hard and so you can ski

[00:59:01] and go threshold or like those higher zones

[00:59:06] in your heart rate

[00:59:08] just because it's full body, it's arms and legs

[00:59:10] versus just legs and not burn motivation matches.

[00:59:15] Yeah.

[00:59:16] And so like that was a way for me to get really strong,

[00:59:20] like full body wise.

[00:59:22] So preventing injuries and really strong physical,

[00:59:27] like aerobically and then I would just need a period of time

[00:59:31] to, for it to transfer over to my legs, spinning in circles.

[00:59:35] So I learned that about myself and because of that,

[00:59:39] like I would come into those like march races off the back,

[00:59:44] off the back because I'd be like, I'm so hot.

[00:59:49] And I just like need like six, give me six weeks

[00:59:54] to like transfer this fitness over and then I'll be there.

[00:59:58] And so that's something that I learned

[01:00:00] over the course of my career.

[01:00:02] And there were times where I was like, okay,

[01:00:04] maybe I should like go to Tucson and G anywhere.

[01:00:08] Like maybe that will work better.

[01:00:09] So we tried that and it didn't.

[01:00:12] There you go.

[01:00:13] Yeah.

[01:00:13] Yeah.

[01:00:14] I like was not as strong, you know?

[01:00:17] That's so interesting.

[01:00:18] Like physically I was getting like little nags

[01:00:21] and like aerobically I wasn't as strong

[01:00:25] and I'm like, okay, I need skiing.

[01:00:27] Like that works for me.

[01:00:28] Yeah.

[01:00:28] And experimenting like that, I think is so valuable

[01:00:31] because if you coming into those march races

[01:00:34] and you're off the back, having the confidence to know

[01:00:39] like this isn't, this doesn't mean I'm not the athlete

[01:00:43] I thought it was.

[01:00:44] This doesn't mean I'm not going to have a good season

[01:00:46] because it's so easy to have one bad race

[01:00:49] and all of a sudden you start doubting everything.

[01:00:53] Yes.

[01:00:54] Do you remember a time when you finally kind of got

[01:00:56] to that point where you were like, I know even if this is not

[01:00:58] a good race, like it's not going to shake my confidence?

[01:01:01] Man, that's a good, that is a good question.

[01:01:06] I don't know if there was a moment.

[01:01:08] I mean, did I deal with like some confidence shakes?

[01:01:11] Yes.

[01:01:12] Yes.

[01:01:13] And I would just think back and I would go, okay,

[01:01:17] I was on snow a week ago.

[01:01:18] Yeah.

[01:01:19] Yeah.

[01:01:19] So like it's naturally going to take some time

[01:01:24] and my coach would remind me of that.

[01:01:26] And then I think, you know, all it takes really is it working one time?

[01:01:34] Ah, yeah.

[01:01:36] I think and being open to it working one time

[01:01:39] and then you're like, yeah, this work.

[01:01:41] We got this.

[01:01:42] We got this.

[01:01:44] We got this.

[01:01:45] And like keeping the faith.

[01:01:47] I mean, cycling is so brutal because it's such a long season.

[01:01:52] There are so many potential confidence pitfalls like all along the way.

[01:01:57] Yeah.

[01:01:57] And now especially that we have power meters, you know,

[01:02:01] Oh my gosh.

[01:02:01] It can be a blessing in a curse.

[01:02:04] Yes.

[01:02:05] Yes.

[01:02:05] So it's it's like about I think remaining open that you know what?

[01:02:13] We tend to like, um, catastrophize.

[01:02:15] Is that how you say that?

[01:02:16] Yeah.

[01:02:17] Yeah.

[01:02:17] Catastrophize.

[01:02:18] Yeah.

[01:02:18] Yeah.

[01:02:18] That's a great word.

[01:02:19] It's just human nature, right?

[01:02:21] It's like, oh, this is the end of the season.

[01:02:24] It's March.

[01:02:27] This is the end of my career.

[01:02:28] I should I should probably just quit now, right?

[01:02:31] And it's like, what if we just said, what if it is going to work out?

[01:02:36] Oh, yeah.

[01:02:39] You know?

[01:02:40] Yeah.

[01:02:41] Because we always go to the opposite of that, right?

[01:02:43] Like, oh, what if this means everything is, you know,

[01:02:48] everything's down the drain, but yes.

[01:02:50] Flip it around.

[01:02:52] Yeah.

[01:02:52] But like, what if this is all part of the plan for it to work out?

[01:02:58] Yeah.

[01:02:59] Well, I think that's such a common pitfall, especially with the

[01:03:02] seasonality of cycling and for those who aren't familiar,

[01:03:05] typically the competition of the racing season doesn't really get going until March or April

[01:03:10] and then it lasts for a really long time all the way through September or October.

[01:03:14] So it's a really long season, but a lot of us, and I will include myself in this group

[01:03:19] because I have fallen to this trap myself.

[01:03:21] You come out into the very beginning of the season and you kind of feel like,

[01:03:25] if you're not in peak fitness in March, then somehow the whole season is going to just be

[01:03:30] terrible, but it's so ridiculous because you literally have like six or seven months before

[01:03:36] you know, like, but and the idea that you would, if you came out in March with peak

[01:03:41] fitness and be able like that you would be able to sustain it through the parts of

[01:03:45] the season that really matter is ludicrous.

[01:03:49] I mean, that's a disaster.

[01:03:53] Yes.

[01:03:53] Essentially, do you want to win the first race or do you want to win Worlds?

[01:03:59] It's like, I probably want to choose Worlds in August, September.

[01:04:04] So I mean, I've just started coaching two athletes individually and I feel like sometimes

[01:04:12] I give them that reminder of like, hey, by the way, it's January.

[01:04:16] I don't want our numbers to be good right now.

[01:04:19] Yeah.

[01:04:19] Like we're building.

[01:04:20] Yeah.

[01:04:21] We're building what we are aiming for like July, August, even May.

[01:04:26] I mean, that's like a far ways away.

[01:04:29] Yeah.

[01:04:30] Yeah.

[01:04:30] I don't remember who said it and I apologize.

[01:04:32] I'm not going to be able to attribute this quote very well, but it's a great quote.

[01:04:36] Don't waste good legs on training.

[01:04:38] Oh God, that's brilliant.

[01:04:41] I never heard that.

[01:04:42] I know if anybody listening knows where that quote came from, I'll try to find it myself

[01:04:46] and we'll add it in the show notes if we can.

[01:04:47] But like, yeah.

[01:04:49] Yes.

[01:04:50] Preach.

[01:04:51] Whoever said that.

[01:04:53] So tell me about the coaching.

[01:04:55] How has that transition been for you from being a competitor to now coaching the competitors?

[01:05:00] It has been really, really cool.

[01:05:03] Actually, it's been really rewarding.

[01:05:06] I retired a year ago and I set up this last year to explore three different things,

[01:05:12] three different paths.

[01:05:14] One being coaching another public speaking and another race broadcasting.

[01:05:19] So announcing, commentating.

[01:05:21] And there's a real fear after retiring from a 20-year career.

[01:05:28] And I'm sure a lot of people can relate to this because all retirements and change

[01:05:33] are essentially the same.

[01:05:35] It's scary.

[01:05:36] And especially coming off of an Olympic pursuit, I thought,

[01:05:41] is anything going to fill up my cup like that did?

[01:05:46] It's really, yeah, I was scared and upset about it.

[01:05:52] And the great news is I liked all of them.

[01:05:56] So I got to answer that question.

[01:05:59] So that was a big win.

[01:06:02] And coaching consistently comes out on top.

[01:06:07] I mean, I find it a natural transition for me because I was very invested in mentoring

[01:06:15] throughout my career, like the second half of my career.

[01:06:18] So yeah, coaching seems like a natural transition.

[01:06:22] Oh, I love it.

[01:06:23] I love it.

[01:06:23] So how long did it take you to figure out that this was all working?

[01:06:27] Or was it sort of a love at first sight with these three paths?

[01:06:32] Wow.

[01:06:33] Well, there was one moment where I felt like that relief of like, oh my gosh, OK,

[01:06:41] I'm going to find the like, there's something more for me on the other side.

[01:06:46] And that was so I retired my last race.

[01:06:48] It was August 23rd.

[01:06:50] It was Marathon Nationals.

[01:06:52] And then I'm so grateful for this.

[01:06:55] Tara McCarthy of USA Cycling said, hey, do you want to commentate the Cyclocross Nationals?

[01:07:03] I know you said you were interested in this.

[01:07:04] And I was like, yes, that's going to be great.

[01:07:08] And so that was like the beginning of December.

[01:07:10] And from that moment when I retired, my back was killing me.

[01:07:18] I mean, it was like my body was finally led up.

[01:07:24] And it was like, OK, now I can feel all the pain.

[01:07:29] Finally.

[01:07:33] Like literally refueling all of these injuries.

[01:07:37] I'm not joking.

[01:07:38] Like, oh, I dislocated that elbow in 2005.

[01:07:43] And now this is hurting me now.

[01:07:46] It's like kind of wild.

[01:07:48] The mind-body connection.

[01:07:50] And my chiropractor said, Leah, this is very normal.

[01:07:54] Like when my patients retire usually at age 60 or in their 60s, they all have back pain.

[01:08:02] Like this is a known and researched thing.

[01:08:05] And I thought, OK.

[01:08:07] So it was debilitating.

[01:08:09] Like I could walk, you know, and that's about it.

[01:08:14] And here I am like, yes, I'm retired.

[01:08:17] I want to do all these things like physically that I have not got to do.

[01:08:23] And now I can't do them because I'm reliving all these injuries that I've had.

[01:08:29] So I went into Cyclocris Nationals, Hartford, Connecticut.

[01:08:36] It was snowing.

[01:08:38] I'm the sideline broadcaster or sideline reporter.

[01:08:41] So I'm standing out for 12 hours a day, interview and finish line interviews,

[01:08:47] Cyclocris interviews.

[01:08:48] And I went in and I thought, oh my, I don't even know if I'm going to be able to physically do this with my back.

[01:08:54] And then I get into it.

[01:08:56] I'm having a blast.

[01:08:58] Like it was awesome.

[01:09:01] And I'm on the car ride home and I think, oh my God, I haven't felt my back all weekend.

[01:09:08] Well, I haven't even thought about it.

[01:09:11] Whoa.

[01:09:12] And I thought, okay, like because it was in that moment, I was like, oh my gosh, I can

[01:09:20] be at a bike race and participate in these moments that I love and honor them at the finish line,

[01:09:29] like honor these victories and no, like in my bones, what it takes to get that win

[01:09:37] and give and ask questions to like bring that experience out and honor it.

[01:09:43] Oh my gosh.

[01:09:44] I don't have to drool on myself.

[01:09:48] You know, and I still know my name at the finish line.

[01:09:52] So it was such a cool new way to interact with bike racing.

[01:09:58] And I was like, my body literally was relieved.

[01:10:01] It was like, okay, there's something in this next chapter for me.

[01:10:05] Like it's not all about the Olympics.

[01:10:08] It's like your body kind of stopped being stuck in the past when you had this moment of realization

[01:10:15] that like, oh, there is hope for the future.

[01:10:18] Yep.

[01:10:19] That's kind of why that is super wild.

[01:10:22] Yeah.

[01:10:23] Okay.

[01:10:23] So you have this platform now, right?

[01:10:26] Like you have established yourself as an athlete and you have established like,

[01:10:29] you know, USA cycling was not blowing smoke when they were giving a nod to your legacy

[01:10:34] because you have done so much to pave the way for women on bikes, for gay athletes.

[01:10:41] I mean, it's really remarkable.

[01:10:43] And a lot of this is through your nonprofit, Little Bellas.

[01:10:47] And we can talk a little bit more about that.

[01:10:49] But before we dig into Little Bellas, I want to talk more about this future looking direction

[01:10:57] of how you are using your platform now, how you want to use your platform.

[01:11:01] Like how do you see, what do you want to do with all of this as you're moving forward?

[01:11:05] Oh, I'm so excited.

[01:11:07] Yeah.

[01:11:07] So what a beautiful thing to have a platform to potentially make a difference.

[01:11:14] And now that I'm no longer functioning in this narrow space, which is the Olympic pursue,

[01:11:23] because when you are pursuing an Olympic dream, you want, like I said before,

[01:11:29] you need sponsor support, you want to ride certain equipment, right?

[01:11:34] You want to do this.

[01:11:35] You want to do that.

[01:11:35] So you, I could not speak up as much as I wanted to because I experienced these inequities,

[01:11:48] that homophobia, you know, like all of these ways that bike racing can break your heart.

[01:11:55] And especially if you're a woman and especially if you're a gay woman.

[01:12:00] And, you know, you can't, you got to pick and choose.

[01:12:04] I had to be very careful.

[01:12:07] And so now that none of that matters, I can have these important conversations that will

[01:12:16] hopefully make an impact for the future.

[01:12:18] And for women that follow, right?

[01:12:21] The athletes that follow, that's like, okay, it's going to be different.

[01:12:26] You know, and I'm ready to just grab any mic, you know, metaphorically or literally in my periphery

[01:12:37] and like let's go, you know, because there is a lot of opportunity in the cycling space for change.

[01:12:45] And I want to use my voice and my experience and my platform to make it different.

[01:12:52] Like it needs to be different for these younger women that are coming up through it.

[01:12:57] Yeah, I mean so many people could go through what you went through and feel

[01:13:02] embittered and like, okay, well, you know, I had to deal with all of this.

[01:13:07] So should you.

[01:13:08] But instead you're like, no, I want, I don't want anyone to have to deal with this.

[01:13:12] Like let's.

[01:13:13] Yeah, because this sucks.

[01:13:14] This sucks.

[01:13:15] Yes.

[01:13:17] Yes.

[01:13:18] Yeah.

[01:13:19] Yeah.

[01:13:20] And sometimes it's overwhelming.

[01:13:22] It's overwhelming and there are times where it's like, okay, I got to take a pause.

[01:13:30] Like I need to take care of myself because it's almost like now that I've come out of

[01:13:36] functioning in that narrow space, I like pick my head up and I see like, oh my gosh, this is

[01:13:43] really bad.

[01:13:44] Yeah.

[01:13:44] I mean, there's like sexism everywhere and each of the paths that I chose, sexism, you

[01:13:53] know, and there's a lot of battles to be fought.

[01:13:56] So it's, I have learned, I mean, it's a balance and you got to like fill up your cup so you can

[01:14:02] like make fight those battles essentially.

[01:14:06] Yeah, because it takes so much to show up for things like that and to show up and advocate

[01:14:13] for, you know, inclusion and just call it out.

[01:14:18] Just call out that sexism, that misogyny, that homophobia because it's exhausting.

[01:14:22] Yeah.

[01:14:22] But we need people to show up and I think you make a really good point that oftentimes, well,

[01:14:28] the athletes that are in the middle of their racing careers, just like you were,

[01:14:32] don't necessarily feel like they have the freedom to speak up the way that they want to

[01:14:36] because they risk losing sponsors, losing team spots, which is that sucks.

[01:14:44] Yeah.

[01:14:44] That sucks that it's like that.

[01:14:45] It's a reality.

[01:14:46] But it is a reality and so you've got this really great position now where not only do

[01:14:51] you have the platform, but yeah, like you said, you don't have to worry about that stuff.

[01:14:55] Like, yeah.

[01:14:57] Yeah.

[01:14:58] And it's calling it out, the bad and the good.

[01:15:02] Yes.

[01:15:02] Right.

[01:15:03] Right.

[01:15:03] And picking into, there is still like some strategy, right?

[01:15:07] Of like, yeah, this is probably a battle not worth fighting.

[01:15:11] Like I don't really need to have this conversation.

[01:15:14] And there's a lot of things like it's like forwards and backwards, right?

[01:15:19] Like simultaneously, there's a tug.

[01:15:22] The thing that in the past year that was very, I think heartening, I would use the word,

[01:15:30] is the Lifetime Grand Prix and they are put, this is a series that is powered by women actually.

[01:15:40] And they are centering this on women.

[01:15:44] Like the women aren't the sideshow, right?

[01:15:47] Right.

[01:15:47] Like we have equal coverage in the call of the lifetime and they make sure like at Big Sugar,

[01:15:54] there were three female broadcasters.

[01:15:57] Wow.

[01:15:58] Three.

[01:15:58] Wow.

[01:15:59] And they made sure like that I, they asked me to all of the events, right?

[01:16:04] And so it's like, that's actually huge in the cycling world because we still deal with a World Cup

[01:16:14] where there has never been a female voice for cross-country racing.

[01:16:20] Wow.

[01:16:21] There's never been a female voice.

[01:16:23] And I, that was my goal.

[01:16:25] I mean, it drives me nuts that there is not a female perspective and like the women's racing

[01:16:32] is awesome.

[01:16:33] It is.

[01:16:33] So why don't, yeah.

[01:16:36] So why don't we have a female broadcaster?

[01:16:39] Yeah.

[01:16:39] And so that was one of my goals is like, I am going to broadcast a mountain bike World Cup.

[01:16:46] Heck yeah.

[01:16:46] And I essentially kicked the door down.

[01:16:50] I mean, that's what it took me and I grabbed the mic.

[01:16:54] And then they said, thanks, Leo, you are great.

[01:16:56] Okay.

[01:16:56] The women's race is done.

[01:16:58] We don't need you anymore.

[01:17:00] And I go, oh yeah.

[01:17:01] And so then I went over to my friends in the announcing booth who were awesome and they're

[01:17:07] like, come announce with us.

[01:17:09] Great.

[01:17:09] I picked up that mic.

[01:17:11] So I'm like on a mission, you know, like if you're not going to let me pick

[01:17:17] up that mic, I'm going to pick up this one.

[01:17:18] I love it.

[01:17:20] I continue to give female voice a perspective.

[01:17:24] What would you say to, let's say athletes that are, you know, either in the middle of a

[01:17:29] pro career or aspiring to be professionals who want to pick up a mic and want to start

[01:17:35] advocating?

[01:17:37] What are some things that you think that you learned or that you feel like would

[01:17:41] be helpful or effective?

[01:17:44] Yeah.

[01:17:44] Your platform is impactful.

[01:17:47] No matter how small or big or how many followers you have or not, I mean, your

[01:17:54] platform is not only Instagram.

[01:17:56] Right?

[01:17:56] It's who you mentor, who you choose to interact with and have these conversations.

[01:18:02] So it's never too early or too late to start to kind of dig into what matters to you

[01:18:10] and give it voice.

[01:18:12] And I would say align yourself with companies and organizations who you share values with.

[01:18:21] And if you don't, get out of there because it's going to kill your soul.

[01:18:26] And whatever kills your soul does not make you fast.

[01:18:29] Thank you.

[01:18:29] Yes, exactly.

[01:18:31] Exactly.

[01:18:31] It's not worth it, which brings up a fantastic hashtag that you have.

[01:18:35] And this might be a little bit of a tangent, but it's so worth it.

[01:18:37] Happiness is fast.

[01:18:39] Yes.

[01:18:40] I feel like by now in this interview, people are going to get what you mean by that.

[01:18:44] But tell me, when did you come up with that and turn it into the official

[01:18:50] Happiness Is Fast hashtag?

[01:18:52] Yeah.

[01:18:52] That was actually, I have to give credit to, there was a Happiness Is Fast predecessor.

[01:18:59] And that was someone making t-shirts that said, happiness, what's real?

[01:19:06] Mara Cancella.

[01:19:08] Yes, there we go.

[01:19:09] Yep.

[01:19:10] Yep.

[01:19:10] I remember that.

[01:19:11] Yeah.

[01:19:11] I love Mara.

[01:19:12] Like let's make those t-shirts again.

[01:19:14] Yeah, I know.

[01:19:15] Because I love, that's my favorite t-shirt honestly.

[01:19:19] And it had an ice cream cone and it was like happiness, what's real?

[01:19:24] And I was like, this is one of my approaches to professional bike racing.

[01:19:30] Yes.

[01:19:30] And then when those t-shirts, she stopped making those t-shirts and the website.

[01:19:35] And so then I started this hashtag, Happiness Is Fast.

[01:19:39] Because I think it's a great concept that essentially she started and that needs to live on.

[01:19:46] Yes.

[01:19:46] Yes.

[01:19:48] I think it's so easy to imagine that all top athletes are like these acetic monks living

[01:19:58] lives of deprivation and discipline as misery.

[01:20:03] And in fact, when you talk to an athlete like you who's had a career for 20 years,

[01:20:09] like you don't perform at the World Cup level for 20 years if you're miserable.

[01:20:15] Yep.

[01:20:16] Preach.

[01:20:17] That's it.

[01:20:20] So how did you do that?

[01:20:21] If you're not having fun.

[01:20:22] Yeah.

[01:20:23] How did you integrate fun?

[01:20:24] Because you have to do the work, right?

[01:20:26] Like that part, like that's real.

[01:20:28] That's legit.

[01:20:29] But how did you mix it up?

[01:20:31] How did you keep the fun in there?

[01:20:32] It was mostly Maple Soft Serve ice cream after motor-paste sessions.

[01:20:40] I mean we would, my coach and I would do a really hard motor-paste session,

[01:20:44] whether it be like an hour or three hours.

[01:20:46] And then we would end at Palmer Lane and like have a Maple Creamy.

[01:20:52] That's what we call Maple Soft Serve in Vermont.

[01:20:54] It was delicious.

[01:20:56] I mean that's just like one of the ways.

[01:20:58] Another is like we travel all around and most of the time,

[01:21:03] I mean people think, oh so glorious.

[01:21:07] It's like the glamour life just setting.

[01:21:12] I mean it makes me laugh just to think about it that way.

[01:21:16] It's like oh yeah you try to perform at an elite level after being jet lagged

[01:21:21] on a plane for like 17 hours.

[01:21:23] Having had to like build and break down your bike four times.

[01:21:27] Yes, and like sleeping, sitting up with like a neck grip.

[01:21:33] It's taking those moments because a lot of them are training,

[01:21:37] you're resting in the hotel room.

[01:21:39] But like taking those moments to like experience the places where you travel.

[01:21:45] And exactly a thumbs up.

[01:21:49] Those things are so funny now.

[01:21:52] If you can't see this, you know this zoom just gave us a little, I gave a thumbs up.

[01:21:59] So that means we're on the right path.

[01:22:01] Right, Leah literally did a thumbs up and then the screen popped up with a thumbs up emoji.

[01:22:05] It was fantastic.

[01:22:06] You gotta come over to the YouTube channel and watch.

[01:22:10] There we go.

[01:22:12] Is there anything more to say?

[01:22:15] Yeah so a lot of the ways I did that is taking those like travel days,

[01:22:19] maybe going and checking out Prague for an afternoon or and also experiencing like the

[01:22:25] cultures through food.

[01:22:27] That's my most favorite one.

[01:22:29] I love that.

[01:22:30] And so one of the things that I remember this very clearly, I'm pretty sure I ordered one,

[01:22:35] was you designed a donut give up jersey for Garno and phenomenal.

[01:22:43] Donuts were part of how I incorporated happiness.

[01:22:47] Yes.

[01:22:49] So I just love that.

[01:22:50] Can you tell me the story behind coming up with that, the donut give up jersey?

[01:22:54] Yeah Garno is such a cool sponsor.

[01:22:57] I've been working with them for now a long time.

[01:23:02] Yeah.

[01:23:02] It's just a little bit under a decade and Heidi Myers was my sponsor contact at

[01:23:09] the time.

[01:23:09] We were great friends and in fact she's one of the people that encouraged me to

[01:23:15] like live more out loud.

[01:23:17] Like Lee, I think you being more visible on Instagram with Frazier,

[01:23:20] I think it can make a real impact and I am forever grateful for that conversation.

[01:23:25] So she was like, yeah let's do something to showcase our custom program.

[01:23:34] That you can make any kit that you want to with like our awesome designers.

[01:23:39] And so we went off the donut theme and she's like brilliant.

[01:23:45] So I think she came up with the donut give up and I'm like, yeah let's just,

[01:23:50] yeah I love it.

[01:23:52] Let's like cover a kit in donuts.

[01:23:54] This is great.

[01:23:56] I love it.

[01:23:56] And that's a great segue because you also recently did a kit with them

[01:24:00] for Allied right?

[01:24:02] Yes.

[01:24:02] Athlete ally.

[01:24:03] Yes.

[01:24:05] Yeah so that kit went with my, it's confusing with my Allied cycle works

[01:24:12] custom bikes.

[01:24:13] So they make custom paint schemes which are stunning.

[01:24:18] And I was already thinking about in my last season of racing like okay I'm going to race,

[01:24:24] pick organizations that I believe in, athlete ally being one of them

[01:24:28] and I'm going to design kits to raise awareness for these organizations.

[01:24:34] Hopefully money.

[01:24:35] And so I was thinking athlete ally is creating a world where everyone can access the life's

[01:24:45] saving power of sport.

[01:24:47] Yeah.

[01:24:48] And so in particularly using sport as to build a more inclusive world through sport

[01:24:55] and focusing on the LGBTQ plus population.

[01:24:59] So it's a wonderful organization go check them out.

[01:25:03] And so with that it was kind of coming out kit.

[01:25:08] Essentially it was called darkness to light.

[01:25:10] So it was about coming out of the darkness and into the light of living my full authentic self

[01:25:17] and life.

[01:25:18] And in a way I mean everyone was coming out of the darkness of the pandemic

[01:25:23] and kind of coming more into the light.

[01:25:26] We all had our own versions of darkness.

[01:25:29] So when allied came to me in our first meeting and they said,

[01:25:35] oh Leah what do you want to paint your first bike?

[01:25:38] And I was like what this is awesome.

[01:25:42] I had no idea.

[01:25:44] I could like design my own bike like my own paint scheme.

[01:25:49] It's incredible.

[01:25:50] So I said yeah let's do this concept of darkness to light.

[01:25:54] So it's on the front.

[01:25:56] It's like riding straight into the darkness.

[01:25:59] It's like a dark blue night sky and then it transitions to a lighter blue

[01:26:05] and then it's in the rear it's the light.

[01:26:08] It's like almost like this.

[01:26:10] Like it's not a pink but I can't remember the word but I love that color.

[01:26:14] And so it's a sick bike and it also looks like one of those popsicles.

[01:26:22] That's like the red, white and blue.

[01:26:26] Which is I also love.

[01:26:30] What are they like rocket pops or I know exactly.

[01:26:32] Yeah bomb pops, rocket pops.

[01:26:35] So awesome.

[01:26:36] Yeah so we did a matching kit with Garno and this bike and I rode this bike at Unbound.

[01:26:43] So that was a lot of I was riding into a lot of darkness there.

[01:26:48] Two unbound.

[01:26:49] Unbound is a 200 mile gravel race and for those unfamiliar first of all 200 miles is just stupid

[01:26:55] long like stupid long full stop but then you add to that that it's 200 miles on gravel

[01:27:02] and then it's like ridiculously stupid long but then you're on gravel in Emporia,

[01:27:06] Kansas which is not normal gravel.

[01:27:09] Like no I've been on gravel roads in Vermont that are better than the paved roads here in

[01:27:13] Connecticut.

[01:27:14] Yes.

[01:27:14] The gravel in Emporia is chunky and brutal so this is 200 miles of chunky gravel.

[01:27:25] That's exactly what it is.

[01:27:27] Yeah and then it poured rain.

[01:27:28] Oh seven years.

[01:27:30] So it was funny I liked that a little bit better.

[01:27:36] Oh yeah.

[01:27:37] Yeah.

[01:27:38] Yeah.

[01:27:38] What a challenge.

[01:27:39] So lots of darkness.

[01:27:41] So this was part of like your transition out of World Cup racing right doing the lifetime

[01:27:45] Grand Prix what was that like for you going from I mean obviously you're carrying a ton

[01:27:50] of fitness right coming out of this kind of racing which is a little bit maybe I'll say

[01:27:55] more fun is that a fair way of putting it then maybe?

[01:28:01] Devatable.

[01:28:02] Maybe not the right word.

[01:28:05] Okay.

[01:28:05] Okay.

[01:28:06] Yeah you go, you go.

[01:28:07] I am optimized for 90 minutes of racing.

[01:28:13] There you go.

[01:28:14] 90 minutes.

[01:28:15] Yeah.

[01:28:15] And unbound which is at the extreme end of this race calendar which is the lifetime Grand

[01:28:21] Prix is took me 12 hours to finish and so I'm just not made for that.

[01:28:29] I'm not made for that like endurance events like I kind of I discovered through this year

[01:28:34] of racing that that year of racing that I like kind of max out at like three and a half

[01:28:42] to four and a half like that I can race right like up until that point like put in attacks

[01:28:49] and digs and that's for me is fun.

[01:28:51] Right.

[01:28:52] And then after that the light shut off and it is like survival mode not as fun.

[01:28:58] Yeah.

[01:29:02] So that's when I discovered in that year of racing I also went into it thinking like

[01:29:08] I love all forms of bike racing right?

[01:29:10] Right.

[01:29:10] Oh yeah.

[01:29:11] Mountain biking because I've done some road racing in gravel and then I was like oh no I

[01:29:17] don't I like mountain biking I really like mountain biking.

[01:29:21] I mean gravel is great but it was just a little bit long for me.

[01:29:25] Yeah 200 miles is a little bit long for me.

[01:29:27] Yeah.

[01:29:29] Yes.

[01:29:30] I think that's pretty fair to say yeah but I mean it's great like it's wonderful confirmation

[01:29:35] you know bookending this career that like yeah I chose the right path.

[01:29:39] Yeah totally I definitely chose the right path.

[01:29:45] Oh so let's talk a little bit about Little Bellas because I don't I don't want to end

[01:29:48] this conversation without at least I mean because this has been an organization that

[01:29:53] you and your sister save.

[01:29:55] Yeah founded together and I mean you've been changing lives with Little Bellas for a

[01:30:00] really long time so let's just do you mind just giving the audience a quick overview of what it

[01:30:05] is and what you guys have been doing with it?

[01:30:07] Yeah absolutely so my sister and I save we got together with this other woman Angela Irvine

[01:30:16] and the three of us started Little Bellas and Angela is a little bit older so she kind of

[01:30:21] served as our mentor through the whole process which is beautiful because it is Little Bellas is a

[01:30:28] mentoring on mountain bikes program for girls and we started in Vermont it has grown to be all

[01:30:35] over the country multiple chapters which meet I mean there's many different formats but our

[01:30:42] bread and butter is meeting weekly for about six weeks for two hours it could be four weeks six

[01:30:49] week session once a week and we it's an incredible thing that we are powered by our mentors our

[01:30:58] volunteer mentors and our chapter leads around the country they're the ones that make the Little

[01:31:05] Bellas dreams come true you know like and really enact our mission and this whole vision we had

[01:31:12] which was to get more girls on bikes and also to use the bike as a tool that it can be as to gain

[01:31:21] self-confidence and empower women and it's really amazing that you know save has been at the lead

[01:31:28] of it as the executive director and she's just taken Little Bellas to some incredible places so

[01:31:36] her working together with the staff and all of our program leads and we probably have now

[01:31:43] I would say like around 600 volunteer mentors around the country so not only does it give

[01:31:50] it's a really neat program for girls like seven to 14 years old it also gives a very

[01:31:58] wonderful space for women these female mentors to meet each other yeah and like it's just a lovely

[01:32:07] female space yeah you guys have been building community I know definitely in Vermont and across

[01:32:13] the country at this point yeah what what's one of the things that surprised you most about

[01:32:19] this process of building communities hmm um I think it's easier than you think I mean

[01:32:27] this term like building community is like all you know all around and gets like thrown out

[01:32:36] and I think I mean let's be clear the work of Little Bellas and the mentors and everything

[01:32:44] that is very hard work and so when it's when the infrastructure is there and and it's built right

[01:32:52] like the bones are built right which is what the Little Bellas program does then if you build it

[01:33:00] they will come and it's about making connections really yeah it's about making connections that's

[01:33:07] that's what building community is to me yeah and it seems like you're creating so Little Bellas

[01:33:13] is kind of creating the structure and making the space for people to find the belonging that they

[01:33:19] haven't had yes exactly in cycling yeah that's a beautiful way to put it I we we try to make it

[01:33:27] you know the staff we're based in Vermont and we try to make it easy for these women

[01:33:32] who want to start a program like Little Bellas like yeah I would love to get girls together

[01:33:37] to ride you know I have a daughter or I have you know like or I just want to do this because

[01:33:44] I feel passionate about it and so our job at the organization the organization's job is to make it easy

[01:33:52] for those program leads and so it's it's just kind of a plug-and-play and then they get to add

[01:33:59] their own little take and creativity to it right like we learn so much from the program

[01:34:06] leads around the country because everyone is different so they bring something new and we're

[01:34:11] like oh yeah that works really well let's use this over here or that works yeah we should change that so

[01:34:18] yeah it is such a really cool community yeah yeah so if I understand correctly though Little Bellas

[01:34:26] is not about racing no not at all yeah that's the other point I wanted to make so it is a

[01:34:34] non-competitive program and we get competitive girls that come along and participate and get on

[01:34:42] bikes and they love it and of course we encourage them to race if they want to and we found that

[01:34:49] it's a space for those girls who reach you know 10 years old 11 12 and they don't really vibe with

[01:34:58] the team sport model yes and they're in the process of getting left behind right like okay if I don't

[01:35:06] play soccer I don't really I don't I don't really want to do this or none of my friends are doing

[01:35:12] this so I'm not going to do it we have successfully built a space where they feel like they can

[01:35:18] be part of the team right and and have a sense of belonging so that's a big reason why we do

[01:35:25] jerseys for the program and so it's like it's an equalizer right like everyone shows up with

[01:35:31] the Little Bellas jersey everyone is equal so it partially throws like those judgments that people

[01:35:38] can have out the window because I have a Little Bellas jersey I belong I belong here oh yeah I

[01:35:45] love that I wanted to follow up on that that thought because I think it breaks my heart

[01:35:50] because I see this happen a lot in especially in the school systems where there are and to be fair

[01:35:56] I mean schools are not in a position to offer all of the things like yeah there's limitations and I

[01:36:01] and I totally understand that but I think it's so heartbreaking when kids have a bad experience or

[01:36:06] they don't vibe with you know what's offered in PE classes physical education classes or they don't

[01:36:12] vibe with whatever the club sports are on offer and they just think oh exercise is not for me

[01:36:18] movement is not for me like I've tried this thing it doesn't work for me or I don't fit I don't belong

[01:36:24] here this is not for me when there's something out there right that will vibe whatever you know

[01:36:31] whatever it happens to be and I love that you are offering this alternative where people can find

[01:36:36] kids especially can find joy in movement and belonging while they do I mean yes that's

[01:36:44] a dream right yeah it is um another thing that I've realized through this past year and um I read

[01:36:54] this book good for a girl by Laura Fleishman have you read this it's on my list I can't wait to read

[01:36:59] it I highly recommend it it's a lot it's you know like parallel in some ways parallel stories

[01:37:07] and it's pretty eye-opening that she gave words to some realizations that I've had over this past

[01:37:15] year which is sport and cycling is designed for and built by men yeah yeah yeah and you know title

[01:37:29] nine has been great like a game changer in a lot of different ways for you and I for sure

[01:37:36] and our generation the generation before because my mom had zero opportunities to compete which is

[01:37:42] one of the reasons why she threw my sister and I into all the different sports and in a way

[01:37:48] it sets up like we are trying to fit in this system that's been built by men and designed

[01:37:57] for men yeah right so it's like sometimes you run up to like a square peg in a round hole

[01:38:04] like this isn't working right and and there's a lot of assumptions around the systems that have been

[01:38:15] built you know and and one of them is that there's a pervasive notion that women can't coach

[01:38:24] like women are as good of coaches as men because there's no women coaches out there

[01:38:32] so if there are none how are we supposed to change this narrative right and it's and it is a narrative

[01:38:40] that is out there I mean I experienced coaching in the last year um there was some feedback this

[01:38:48] is when it really crystallized for me there was some feedback from some of the riders

[01:38:54] on the national team which was and I do not fault them for this you know Leah is awesome

[01:39:01] and I wish we had a male version of Leah oh wow and that at first stung because I'm like no I'm not a

[01:39:15] dude and guess what there is no male version of me yeah this is as good as it gets like

[01:39:23] if you go searching for a male version you're not going to find anything better

[01:39:28] there is only one Leah Davidson folks yes and then I kind of after like that

[01:39:35] calm down settled then I realized you know what I get it I understand where that came from

[01:39:45] that comment because guess what I wish I had a female coach at any point in my career

[01:39:54] yeah at any point and so we as women are just we have to sit there and take it because there are no

[01:40:02] women coaches out there yeah there's like a extreme lack of female coaches and so it's like

[01:40:07] me and I wish I had a woman but okay we're gonna make it work with this guy because I want to go

[01:40:12] with the Olympics to the Olympics you know like and I'm talking like and I'm not saying male

[01:40:18] coaches are bad no are a a lot of phenomenal coaches out there 100% and it's just so interesting that

[01:40:29] the one moment one moment where there wasn't a male coach and they only had female coaches to work with

[01:40:38] they got uncomfortable and it was like no no we we need a guy yeah and it's like welcome to my life

[01:40:44] for my entire career yes yes and the reaction from the organization was like we got to get a guy

[01:40:53] we got to get a guy and it's like no wait a minute wait a minute and so it's like pause this is designed

[01:41:08] for and by men because the guys experience a little bit of discomfort and we got a oh my god

[01:41:17] we gotta fix it and so what happens in sport when if we started to center women what would that look

[01:41:27] like oh man it would look like female coaches it would look like prioritizing support systems

[01:41:35] around women it would look like a diagnosis for red ass which by the way men and women can get so

[01:41:42] that would that would benefit you know both genders and it's like it's it's a good thing to ponder

[01:41:50] like what would that start to look like oh my gosh the research the yes you know the the

[01:41:57] populations that we include in research studies on performance physiology yes let's stop excluding

[01:42:03] the women because of their menstrual cycle and maybe study what's going on with that like we would

[01:42:08] love to know yeah we're all ears yeah there are some like little pockets of research and I'm sure

[01:42:18] you know like they I just heard about this um red ass study of um the western states marathons so

[01:42:27] like they had a population from western states ultramarathoners men and women sign up and so there's

[01:42:33] some pretty interesting publish you know findings being published from that and then um whoop the

[01:42:41] head of data analytics and science is a woman there you go yeah and she actually gave a phenomenal

[01:42:49] Ted talk in the same cohort that I did on the anniversary of title nine oh and um I would I

[01:42:57] would highly recommend all send you the link but her talk is phenomenal we can include that in the

[01:43:02] show notes yeah that's awesome what you're saying is really resonating and one of the things I came

[01:43:08] to realize and shortly after retirement and reflecting back on my career was I was like wow

[01:43:13] you know so I started swimming at about the age of 10 and so as a swimmer kind of threw

[01:43:17] adolescence and then cycling was like my second act and I was like oh my gosh from the age of 10

[01:43:24] through my whole career I was pushing against or feeling ashamed of everything that makes me a

[01:43:33] woman oh my gosh right and I was striving for all of the male versions of that so I wanted

[01:43:43] muscles not curves like curves are bad muscles are good um you know and these things are not

[01:43:50] it's not necessarily true like yes I need to be strong and I need to be fit in order to compete

[01:43:56] but what my strength and my fitness looks like as a woman doesn't have to look the same

[01:44:01] as it does for men but when I was growing up I from the age of 10 man I hated the parts

[01:44:09] of my body or the things about myself that we would traditionally consider feminine right yeah

[01:44:16] and I was cultivating all of the characteristics that we would traditionally ascribe to males

[01:44:22] because that was it and what does that do to you on a fundamental level when you are constantly

[01:44:31] rejecting what is fundamentally you yeah and trying to be something different

[01:44:39] yes that's not to say that we can't all embody different male and female you know the characteristics

[01:44:44] we traditionally ascribe to male and female yeah but what you were talking about about having

[01:44:50] a female coach it's not about you know it's not necessarily that a female coach is going

[01:44:53] to be better but there are going to be some things where I could say to you Leah

[01:44:58] you know I could I describe in five words and immediately you're going to be like oh

[01:45:02] I've been there I totally get it it's like we can kind of transmit that information in shorthand

[01:45:07] and because you've had that experience as a woman we're just like right there okay I get you

[01:45:12] you don't have to explain yourself anymore let's handle this whereas with if I'm

[01:45:17] saying the same thing to a male coach I mean it might take so much explanation and we might never

[01:45:25] get to that point of understanding and that might be that might be something that would

[01:45:29] make a really big difference for me as an athlete yeah did you ever have a so you're

[01:45:35] talking swimming and you swam for Stanford correct yeah so this is like a high level

[01:45:41] d1 and then through your cycling career did you ever have a female coach I did so when I was

[01:45:48] in high school as a swimmer I did have a female coach and I think that she kind of softened a

[01:45:53] lot of this for me even though she had been through it herself but even her influence wasn't

[01:46:00] enough to stave off the tsunami of influence in sport and then right the rhetoric the entire

[01:46:11] culture you're just steeped in it all the time I mean this is going to sound awful but like

[01:46:17] I at one point then this was like years later I was telling a friend a quote unquote air quotes

[01:46:22] funny story about how a team I was on the staff hired a prostitute during one of our race series

[01:46:28] and I was telling this woman about it and she her jaw hit the floor and she looked at me and she's

[01:46:32] like that is not okay and I stopped myself and I realized I had been sharing this as if it were

[01:46:39] just a funny anecdote yes and it drove home to me how deeply I had normalized the misogyny

[01:46:49] in our culture yeah to think that that was acceptable and funny when we're on a team of women who are

[01:46:57] literally between the ages of like 18 and 30 how is that okay it's not okay and that yeah you know

[01:47:04] that's one among many many many things but yeah and then totally I did have a female coach for a

[01:47:09] short period um in cycling and that did help it did help but again it wasn't enough because

[01:47:18] again the whole culture it was like okay my coach is female but my director's male my whole staff is

[01:47:23] me all of our swan years and massage therapists are male yes and not that any of those are like

[01:47:31] they're not necessarily bad people I mean we'll we'll table the discussion of the staff

[01:47:37] I mean that's now that's really bad but I mean there are good people everywhere so like yeah this

[01:47:42] is not to say that like this is all bad but to your point the representation matters because

[01:47:48] having a female coach makes a difference and then having a female director or even if it's just one

[01:47:54] person on the staff or even having equal representation on the staff you know 50 50 would be amazing

[01:47:59] like and then you have the valuable because men bring valuable perspective and women do too

[01:48:07] and we both yeah but yeah it's it's there's a lot we have a long way to go with that representation

[01:48:15] yeah and just thank goodness there's safe sport now I mean yeah the first time I took safe sport

[01:48:23] I was like oh my goodness you just think back to your career and like all of these awful moments

[01:48:31] you know and it's like well now at least there's like some kind of infrastructure and support system

[01:48:37] to like deal with that but that's just like one of the many barriers for women's sports like abuse

[01:48:46] of all different kinds emotional sexual physical verbal inequality you know unequal pay unequal

[01:48:54] race opportunities unequal hiring I mean let's not even get into like when women get pregnant

[01:49:01] I mean do their contract stay and there's just so the red ass like this idea that power to weight

[01:49:08] ratio is everything yes and that you need to like starve yourself you know and if you if you don't

[01:49:16] get your period oh okay whatever you know like I'm performing it's like no you need to get

[01:49:22] your period like this is essential for your performance and food is fuel and it's like

[01:49:28] there are so many barriers in women's sports that do not need to be there yes exactly exactly

[01:49:35] because the part of sport is embracing challenge yes and overcoming but there are challenges which

[01:49:43] are genuinely fulfilling yes and contribute to growth and then there are as you just put

[01:49:49] these completely unnecessary challenges that are just barriers to the fulfilling challenges

[01:49:57] to the challenges that make sport the beautiful thing that it is like let's get over there yes

[01:50:09] yeah oh man yeah that's the goal that's the goal and here's leah she is on a mission picking up

[01:50:16] mics like yes be careful if you've got a microphone and leaves around honestly hand it to her hand it to her

[01:50:29] just let's make this easy and just hand it to me

[01:50:35] drop you drop it i'll pick it up you know i love it okay and that's the point where we say mic drop

[01:50:41] and then we end up so right exactly okay well before we go because i don't want to i have gosh i

[01:50:48] could talk to you for the rest of the day but before we go this is the be a good wheel podcast

[01:50:53] so is there and i know because i saw your retirement thank you and there's such a long

[01:50:58] list of folks that i know you would that are going to be spinning around in your head

[01:51:02] but is there somebody that you want to just shout out off the top of your head

[01:51:05] who has been a really good wheel for you in your career oh man yeah okay i'm gonna there's a couple

[01:51:12] okay okay crazier obviously one of the best wheels out there yeah and and then andy bishops my coach

[01:51:22] he is a really good wheel to follow literally and metaphorically and um also bill knowles

[01:51:32] i mean he is my strength coach he has brought me back from two hip surgeries one knee surgery

[01:51:39] and then to two olympics and two world championship podium so just absolutely unbelievable and i could

[01:51:46] not have made it to where i did without my family support i mean my parents let me live with them

[01:51:55] until i was 30 and they've supported me from day one like yep lia go get your ass at the door

[01:52:04] and like go do do what you can do this is such a great opportunity so yeah those would be

[01:52:13] only the starting i know i had the starting the good wheel it's an iceberg and this is just

[01:52:20] the tip of the iceberg yeah i understand well lia you have been a great wheel for me personally

[01:52:26] thank you and i know that you've been a good wheel for so many people not just through the little

[01:52:31] bellows but through everything that you've done as a as a trailblazer and a role model so thank you

[01:52:36] for all of that and thank you for joining us today on the show man thanks for having me and thank

[01:52:42] you for being the good wheel for me oh thank you

[01:52:47] i love how openly lia shares the very real and raw parts of her story i'm grateful to her for

[01:52:53] sharing so openly with all of us and i got chills when she shared how frazier's unconditional love

[01:52:59] is what helped her finally feel enough sometimes part of what can drive our aspirations is that

[01:53:05] fear of not being enough and one of the many things i love about lia's story is how finally

[01:53:10] feeling enough did anything but diminish her drive instead it was feeling enough that helped

[01:53:17] her unlock even more of her potential i also really appreciate and admire how lia is determined to

[01:53:23] make things better for other athletes she understands that some challenges in sport are important

[01:53:27] fulfilling and essential to an athlete's growth and others like abuse inequality and

[01:53:32] discrimination should play no part of an athlete's journey and she is doing something

[01:53:38] about it i felt so fired up after speaking with lia and if you do too nurture that fire

[01:53:45] find others rally them too and every chance you get pick up that mic thank you for joining us

[01:53:54] for today's episode if you loved today's show remember to subscribe and leave us a five star

[01:53:59] review the be a good wheel podcast is produced by our wizard behind the curtain maxine filibon

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